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Which puts the big lie to your claim that most homeless in L.A. are local, as that doesn't look like the demographics of L.A. or any other city in California.
well that's a strange claim. Of course the demographics of the homeless don't reflect the general demographics of an area, they never do. The number of Asian homeless are always lower than the percentage of the area's Asian population, but what makes your claim even more bizarre is that if you had looked at the link I provided, on page 28 you will find "Place of Origin" data and it goes like this:
The majority of adults experiencing homelessness (70%) were last stably housed in Los Angeles County. 67% of youth age 18-24 were last stably housed in Los Angeles County
Anything else you want to accuse me of lying about?
I have. Many times in my younger days. Have you recently? Sure there are a lower class of folks on the buses. Drunk, stoned and interfering with other passengers? Reeking of booze and bodily fluids? Um, no, they're not allowed to stay on board. Ask the cops who get called to remove them when they try.
Neither does your response change the obvious truth of all I wrote of the disposition of homeless to migration.
Polemics to you perhaps. Truth to your fiction nonetheless. Proven. Unarguably. Except to persons unwilling to accept unarguable facts. If the shoe fits ...
Show me your research. I've shown mine. Repeatedly. In multiple forms from academia and professional agencies and professional independent research firms. So, what's it going to be OC? Proof? Or continued baseless chatter?
I recently visited my friend who is a licensed, practicing Psy.D, and put the question to her: "How many of the homeless in L.A. are mentally ill?"
Her reply: "The vast majority of them."
I'm growing weary of this topic. Most of the homeless are mentally ill and the reason they don't want shelter is because of that. They don't want to be coerced into taking their drugs, and without them they become unmanageable and often are not welcome in shelters due to their abhorrent behavior.
You bleeding hearts can carry on without any further comments from me. My only sentiment is that I am saddened that they are burdened by diseases that are often either inherited or caused by drug use damage, but at this late point they are permanently damaged goods and unlikely to accept any homeless projects.
I am done arguing about how many of the homeless are mentally ill (schizophrenia, manic-depressive disease). The answer is most of them, and nobody can help them unless they can be convinced to accept drug treatment.
I have. Many times in my younger days. Have you recently? Sure there are a lower class of folks on the buses. Drunk, stoned and interfering with other passengers? Reeking of booze and bodily fluids? Um, no, they're not allowed to stay on board. Ask the cops who get called to remove them when they try.
Neither does your response change the obvious truth of all I wrote of the disposition of homeless to migration.
You live in Sacramento, which is not as transient of a city as Los Angeles. It is more likely the homeless there are local. There is a circuit that goes up and down the west coast. Sac is not on it.
You live in Sacramento, which is not as transient of a city as Los Angeles. It is more likely the homeless there are local. There is a circuit that goes up and down the west coast. Sac is not on it.
I do not live in Sacramento and never have. I live in San Diego and Morro Bay. I used to live in San Francisco and Sausalito and out in the Delta. Now retired I spend summers sailing in Puget Sound Washington and British Columbia. None of that has anything to do with what I know about homelessness - other than in San Francisco in particular I interacted with the homeless throughout everyday because I lived on my boat in the Marina district where there are lots of regular homeless. My knowledge of homelessness comes from working outreach and support for veterans in need of benefits and shelter - and from reading in depth on the issue as presented by social scientists.
And your knowledge comes from where? It seems your comments are speculation, not research backed. Tell us about the "circuit of homeless that goes up and down the west coast." Where do you get that from? How many in the "circuit"? What are their demographics? What are their problems? Their origins? Facts. Data. That sort of stuff.
2Sleepy just posted figures from a study of LA's homeless. You rejected it based on what other information?
I have posted numerous stats from other studies of San Francisco and San Diego. I have in previous threads backed those with studies from several academic and private research organizations that all concur in contradiction to your (and LuvOC's) claims. So far I haven't read anything from you (or OC) but simple opinion without references.
I recently visited my friend who is a licensed, practicing Psy.D, and put the question to her: "How many of the homeless in L.A. are mentally ill?"
Her reply: "The vast majority of them."
I'm growing weary of this topic. Most of the homeless are mentally ill and the reason they don't want shelter is because of that. They don't want to be coerced into taking their drugs, and without them they become unmanageable and often are not welcome in shelters due to their abhorrent behavior.
You bleeding hearts can carry on without any further comments from me. My only sentiment is that I am saddened that they are burdened by diseases that are often either inherited or caused by drug use damage, but at this late point they are permanently damaged goods and unlikely to accept any homeless projects.
I am done arguing about how many of the homeless are mentally ill (schizophrenia, manic-depressive disease). The answer is most of them, and nobody can help them unless they can be convinced to accept drug treatment.
Your friend is grossly misinformed in spite of her professional standing. You may choose to believe her out of friendship - or you can turn to research supported facts:
Quote:
According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). Mental Illness and Homelessness - Nation… - National Coalition for ...
www.nationalhomeless.org/.../Mental_Illness.pdfNational Coalition for the Homeless
If you are weary of this topic, don't participate. Why would you? But most of the homeless aren't mentally ill. Lots are. But not most. True they don't like to be "coerced" into taking their meds. No one likes to be coerced into anything, homeless or not. Most of them don't want to be in shelters in any case because, well, shelters suck as has been explained over and over. It's preferable to be on the streets.
I'm not expressing or reading any bleeding hearts in this thread. I, and a few others, are presenting simple reality checks. Very practical stuff. The homeless are a problem, a burden. We can continue to endure their trouble or we can get them off the streets and save public funds. What's any of that got to do with "bleeding hearts"?
Your friend is grossly misinformed in spite of her professional standing. You may choose to believe her out of friendship - or you can turn to research supported facts:
If you are weary of this topic, don't participate. Why would you? But most of the homeless aren't mentally ill. Lots are. But not most. True they don't like to be "coerced" into taking their meds. No one likes to be coerced into anything, homeless or not. Most of them don't want to be in shelters in any case because, well, shelters suck as has been explained over and over. It's preferable to be on the streets.
I'm not expressing or reading any bleeding hearts in this thread. I, and a few others, are presenting simple reality checks. Very practical stuff. The homeless are a problem, a burden. We can continue to endure their trouble or we can get them off the streets and save public funds. What's any of that got to do with "bleeding hearts"?
"According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless
population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6%
of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 survey
performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for the three largest causes of
homelessness in their communities. Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single
adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of
cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness."
While the National Coalition of the Homeless doesn't say that the majority of homeless are mentally ill, it says they have mental illness at much greater rates than the regular population. Mental illness according to the above is 3 times higher among them. For 12% of the cities, mental illness was listed as one of the top three causes of homelessness.
So clearly it is a major issue, though not the top cause of homelessness according to this particular site.
In terms of how willing homeless are to going towards the shelters, keep in mind LA has nice weather.
Chicago is brutally cold and I am sure that when it gets 20 degrees below zero that most homeless are willing to go a cold winter shelter. Even for LA, which hasn't had too much rain lately, has had rain and chilly winters (and they do have specific cold weather shelters) and I know people specifically sign up for those. Homeless can and do die from exposure to the weather.
I do not live in Sacramento and never have. I live in San Diego and Morro Bay. I used to live in San Francisco and Sausalito and out in the Delta. Now retired I spend summers sailing in Puget Sound Washington and British Columbia. None of that has anything to do with what I know about homelessness - other than in San Francisco in particular I interacted with the homeless throughout everyday because I lived on my boat in the Marina district where there are lots of regular homeless. My knowledge of homelessness comes from working outreach and support for veterans in need of benefits and shelter - and from reading in depth on the issue as presented by social scientists.
And your knowledge comes from where? It seems your comments are speculation, not research backed. Tell us about the "circuit of homeless that goes up and down the west coast." Where do you get that from? How many in the "circuit"? What are their demographics? What are their problems? Their origins? Facts. Data. That sort of stuff.
2Sleepy just posted figures from a study of LA's homeless. You rejected it based on what other information?
I have posted numerous stats from other studies of San Francisco and San Diego. I have in previous threads backed those with studies from several academic and private research organizations that all concur in contradiction to your (and LuvOC's) claims. So far I haven't read anything from you (or OC) but simple opinion without references.
Mind you just because something is written or something is cited in a study does not make it inarguable fact. There are questions about who did the study and what they hoped to gain. For example the wine industry has sponsored studies on the health benefits of WINE. While other studies have suggested the supposed health benefits are so minor that they are outweighed by the risk of alcoholism, especially since the wine industry was suggesting a glass a day would be helpful.
"According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless
population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6%
of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 survey
performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for the three largest causes of
homelessness in their communities. Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single
adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of
cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness."
While the National Coalition of the Homeless doesn't say that the majority of homeless are mentally ill, it says they have mental illness at much greater rates than the regular population. Mental illness according to the above is 3 times higher among them. For 12% of the cities, mental illness was listed as one of the top three causes of homelessness.
So clearly it is a major issue, though not the top cause of homelessness according to this particular site.
In terms of how willing homeless are to going towards the shelters, keep in mind LA has nice weather.
Chicago is brutally cold and I am sure that when it gets 20 degrees below zero that most homeless are willing to go a cold winter shelter. Even for LA, which hasn't had too much rain lately, has had rain and chilly winters (and they do have specific cold weather shelters) and I know people specifically sign up for those. Homeless can and do die from exposure to the weather.
Did I, or anyone posting in this thread suggest mental illness is not a major issue in causing homelessness? What's your point in affirming what has been stated and restated many times? Curious.
The poster I responded to said she had a friend who is a "Psy D." who said "the majority of homeless are mentally ill." I pointed out that is not true. Her "friend" is mistaken. Studies of the problem report the incident range of severe mental illness among the homeless to be from just under 20% to just over 35%. No research I am aware of finds the "majority" of homeless to be suffering from severe mental disabilities. The rate is higher than the general population. Yes. It still doesn't represent a "majority". Same as with your previous claim that the majority of homeless are Black. The rate is higher. But it is not the "majority".
The willingness of homeless in bitter cold winters to go into shelter during the cold storms is greater than we see in L.A.? Again, yes. And so? Is there a point you are trying to make? Homeless die from exposure. Yes. Obviously.
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Truth to your fiction nonetheless. Proven. Unarguably. Except to persons unwilling to accept unarguable facts. If the shoe fits ...
