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It seems though that they're the nouveau, nouveau riche of this age. The keeping up with the Joneses, nouveau riche of the OC and the Dallas burbs and now San Jose, seems more akin to the old rich even though there is a difference between them and the blue bloods.
But even with the gaudiness of America's nouveau riche of the 80s it still doesn't compare to the turbocharged utter opulence of the gilded classes of the East and their extended playground cities in the West; London, West LA, Paris, NYC, Miami.
1) The US was settled by Puritans that despised the wealth and pomp of the Church of England and the Catholic church. Their culture was one of severe piety, a hard work ethic, and very austere conformity. Luxury and gaudiness were viewed as a sin. Look at the difference between all of the gold, stained glass, and paintings in a Catholic cathedral in France vs a Quaker meeting house in Philly. This culture has been imbedded in the US for centuries. The people that would represent these very ascetic lifestyles in China or Iran are not the ones moving to the US and living in Beverly Hills.
I take it you never read any Jonathan Edwards, Anne Bradstreet, John Milton, or William Bradford in school?
2) The difference between old money and new money. The nouveau riche of any culture generally feel the need to flaunt their wealth to prove that they have "arrived." This extremely common in western culture.
Interesting, I was going to actually tie it up to the culture in business which extends to the general culture of the top class. The easy corrupt oligarchical economies that rely a lot on special privileges and favors, looting the state and what not trickles down to a culture that's less mindful of remaining classy. Many people in those countries think that the offspring and the heirs of the rich get away with literal murder because they're connected to the top brass in their country. They know little is required of them in terms of hard work and dedication to continue the family legacy and business so they just flaunt the only thing tied to their self worth; trinkets and luxury goods.
For instance, Chile in South America also saw a rise in wealth. Yet, they're way less corrupt and their business culture and acumen seems more legit. It's a strong Catholic culture and hasn't given in to the opulent wealth display seen in other newly minted nations.
I really think the large displays of wealth by the offspring of the well to do are tied with the oligarchic economies.
Last edited by radiolibre99; 03-29-2017 at 01:48 PM..
That's because their wealth is a lot more than the nouveau riche of the 80s. I don't think you quite realize the magnitude in the difference between the two. Were not talking about someone that grew up on a farm in a Nebraska and can now afford can now afford a mcmansion in OC and a leased bmw.
Instead it's someone that grew up in communism where half their family was slaughtered by Mao and now they own a fleet of factories in some city you've never heard of but has a population of 10 million.
Fair point. I agree. But how common is that Chinese dream story of a factory owner who came up from the rural countryside to own several factories? I figured even if the stories are true they had to mind the river of corruption, special favors and bureaucrats that are along the way. Most if not all the billionaires and millionaires in China have a strong association or are a part of the communist Party. Same with Russia (many ex KGB and CP officials). They ran the large state enterprises that were then privatized or partially privatized and now own them.
That is why many want to flee and dump their money into Western countries with more stable and less corrupt ways of doing business.
I'd say cultural differences. I know not everyone form the east is luxury loving addicts and I know not every wealthy ish white American doesn't flaunt there wealth. There is wiggle room but generally speaking this is true.
The cultural difference is white Americans typically encourage their families and people they know to be themselves. Very individualistic. While those from them east are more encouraged to amount to something. They apparently prove they've amounted to something by getting all these goods. I'd say the east is a bit more luxury inclined than those from the west
Upon my many trips around Los Angeles, to all the shopping areas I've noticed a difference between people from the East; Iran, Armenia, Russia, Israel, China, Ukraine, the Gulf States, etc., and Americans in their style. The former just love luxury clothing a lot, luxury cars, they love the most gaudy, flashy, overly bombastic fashion accessories.
Funny thing is in Europe, all of these attributes would be attributed to the US. There would be lots of comments attributing it to the hyper-capitalist materialistic culture of the US.
My guess is the generalization of Eastern flash is some combination of: 1) the new money effect- people tend to spend extravagantly when they come into money vs old money folks who tend to care less. 2) the bias toward remembering the gaudy/extreme over the mundane. I see lots of foreign tourists who travel on buses and stock up at CVS. But, I'm more likely to remember of the Easterner with a 200k car. I agree the wealthy gaudy foreigner sterotype exists, but I'm not sure how representative it really is. 3) tourist from those countries are disproportionately wealthy- Unlike say Australia or Japan, where you have lots of middle class tourists, tourists/expats from those countries are generally a small elite slice of the overall population. Look at the Wall Street/Palm Beach/Beverly Hills/Texas/Vegas/Tech Industry over the top US culture. If those were the only Americans who went abroad people would assume Americans were flashy with their money. I mean Bill Gates (who has a low key reputation) has a 66,000 sq feet home. 4) Many of the goods are not available in their home counties (or are more expensive/knock offs)- this creates the wealthy foreign shopper effect
I just looked up the richest people in China. Jack Ma, Li Hejun, Leij Jun, and Mu Huateng certainly aren't like that. All of those started with nothing and created billion dollar companies. Graduating college in 2 years, working as a janitor, borrowing money from professors, these guys are all brilliant entrepreneurs.
I clearly can tell there is quite a lot of envy in your posts for these successful Chinese. Why do you care about how they choose to spend their wealth? Does it bother you in some way?
Oh God, it was only a matter of time before some one drudged up the envy card. Why is this the last retort of someone who is short on ideas? I wasn't denying that true success stories exist in China, I even said in the post you quoted but obviously didn't read that even so that many probably had to mind the maze of corruption and pay the right people and do the right favors to get ahead. They can spend their money any which way they want, that is their business, but that doesn't mean that I can't call it gaudy or classless or wonder just what is with the obscene and ridiculous ways they choose to spend their wealth. Especially in laughably ridiculous ways like getting bamboozled on bootleg knock off whiskey or dumping their useless currency into tangible assets in the States and Europe.
And that some of it is tied to corruption and oligarchic economies. Why does it bother you that I bring this up? Is it a sign of envy that I don't have the bravado to lack class and ostentatiously show off a Royce that was probably earned through some corrupt means? And I wasn't just talking about the Chinese but a score of countries with oligarchic economies rife with corruption, so I wonder why you singled out the Chinese?
Funny thing is in Europe, all of these attributes would be attributed to the US. There would be lots of comments attributing it to the hyper-capitalist materialistic culture of the US.
My guess is the generalization of Eastern flash is some combination of: 1) the new money effect- people tend to spend extravagantly when they come into money vs old money folks who tend to care less. 2) the bias toward remembering the gaudy/extreme over the mundane. I see lots of foreign tourists who travel on buses and stock up at CVS. But, I'm more likely to remember of the Easterner with a 200k car. I agree the wealthy gaudy foreigner sterotype exists, but I'm not sure how representative it really is. 3) tourist from those countries are disproportionately wealthy- Unlike say Australia or Japan, where you have lots of middle class tourists, tourists/expats from those countries are generally a small elite slice of the overall population. Look at the Wall Street/Palm Beach/Beverly Hills/Texas/Vegas/Tech Industry over the top US culture. If those were the only Americans who went abroad people would assume Americans were flashy with their money. I mean Bill Gates (who has a low key reputation) has a 66,000 sq feet home. 4) Many of the goods are not available in their home counties (or are more expensive/knock offs)- this creates the wealthy foreign shopper effect
All excellent and salient posts, but I wasn't meaning to generalize all people of the East as this way, but that subset that does like the gaudiness and where does it come from? Obviously the stereotype exists, I don't get why people ignore it or deflect with criticisms of Americans acting the same way, I was just wondering what it is in the Eastern cultures where I am assuming this is less challenged or not seen as tacky? IDK.
No, perhaps I've hit a nerve because you're foreign or perhaps because you're vitrue signaling and want to appear as though you're above all the supposed generalizing? Probably both? You see my questioning of a staple in LA and in most cities they call their playgrounds and think that it's just envy and retort like a high schooler with; "you're just jealous".
It's a stereotype that people love to ask about and it's in films, various adult cartoon shows, and is pretty much a running joke. I also ask because some of it is tied to oligarchical economies which run on corruption. So please stop deflecting with this weak pop psychologizing, it's making you look really sensitive and incapable of critical thinking. I mean it's sad that you think you can even read people online.
I am sorry you're incapable of actually answering the question without getting all snowflake on me.
Sorry you're wrong I'm quite certain my cultural heritage is pastier, waspier, whiter, and more "western" than yours. Just gunna throw these key terms out there - The Endeavor (sailed 1683), Phillips Exeter, HBS. Let me know if you need any of that explained.
Once again, I already told you the reasons why Chinese, Arabs, and Russians spend the money they do. Why you feel the need to discuss it further only points to a personal emotional issue coming from within yourself. If your insecurity makes you feel necessary to disparage other cultures, have at it.
Oh man, you expect me to believe that you're an Exeter and a Harvard biz grad? Where'd you go to undergrad? Harvard? What house? LOL. Don't answer that cus I know you're full of it, and even if not, you're still pathetically dropping the H bomb on a chat forum.
I knew the deflection was going to come in one of three ways from someone incapable of debate, A.) you're jealous B.) What's it to you how they spend their money or C.) How does it affect your life? Totallytubularbro you managed to squeeze in all three in a single post. Because you're incapable of critical thinking and debate, you thought you would just shut down the pretty interesting debate where everyone (including you at one point) were adding salient points. Instead you ran out of ideas and chose to deflect with the list above in order to wreck the thread.
Anyways, I appreciate the insight. Good for you for your virtual signaling, I guess this thread needed a white savior of some sort. Now that you've proven your WASPyness to me you can scurry along while the rest of us discuss this. Thanks.
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I'm quite certain my cultural heritage is pastier, waspier, whiter, and more "western" than yours. Just gunna throw these key terms out there - The Endeavor (sailed 1683), Phillips Exeter, HBS. Let me know if you need any of that explained. 
