A Date in Los Angeles (Nice: money, paid, cheap)

[katenik]

Originally Posted by Curious Jay

Hey with all due respect you contradict yourself a bit. You may also harbor some latent feminine materialism where you equate the money your date spends on you with your self-worth (i.e. if he spends a 'respectable' amount on me I'm worth it because men only spend money on desirable women - if he doesn't I feel insulted and he's a cheap bastard). Come on, face it. You obliquely chastize me for supposedly being cheap then go on to say that quality women won't care how much you spend on her. Well, I happen to agree with the latter only! I don't agree with double-standards.

Granted, I'm a recent graduate and she's in her last year in college, but I firmly believe that it's about the company you keep. And at the risk of sounding juvenile, I can confidently tell you that I've gone on the cheapest dates imaginable and spent the night at her place (not that just getting laid is my goal, but hey it's happened).

I've read your posts (and you're a prolific and thoughtful poster) - from them I get the impression that you're at least in your 30s Kate and possibly in your 40s or 50s, and if that's true I appreciate that you have a different perspective - women that age are probably used to the finer things in life, from having dated men who are typically a bit older than them and have established careers and a relative abundance of disposable income.

And besides, if I really like a girl I wouldn't mind spending money on her. But I think it's absolutely foolish to spend money on a girl who you might NEVER see again. Think about this - on most first dates a woman has no real emotional connection with you and can decide not to see you again at the drop of a hat. Can't really blame her either - dating's about finding someone compatible or just having fun (never mind that young people these days don't really "date" anymore). So faced with this reality why blow money on her on a first date? "Cos she's worth it", in the marketing rhetoric of L'Oreal? PLEASE.

For me and a lot of guys I know it's not about the whole 'grand gesture/production' anymore. That's too old-school and women these days are hardly fuzzy little kittens, a lot of them are barracudas! I've done it before where I've spent 150-200 bucks organizing an outing only to be told that 'it's not gonna work' when I called for a second date (She then proceeded to go to another guy's house to watch a DVD and then have sex with him - if that doesn't prove that it's mostly about the company, then I don't know what!). Conversely I've spent 11.99 on two In-N-Out double-doubles and milkshakes and gotten a second date (then a third, then a fourth.. and so on), and I've even had girls pay for our first dates. Yes... goodbye, chivalry, hello Feminism/Women's Rights and 21st Century dating!

So in summation it's not being cheap, imo - it's common sense - never make stupid investments and first dates/new women fall under the same category. They have to prove themselves to me on a first date just as much as I have to, and I won't spend lots of money on a girl who hasn't passed my litmus test. I have my record and personal experience to stand by this and most of my buddies would probably say the same. Nevertheless you've been very helpful so thank you.

jay,

i will get back to you on this. i've been busy today, and i would like to give your post the response that it is due.

[CESpeed]

Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese

haha more and more we see how much money plays a factor to women...What would you like? Filet Mignon on the first date? Wine? Stick to the movies for that fairytale baby.
Every first date I've been on, the woman has been so nervous she can't eat. I had dinner once with a gal that was 28 when I was 21...she was so nervous. She ordered an expensive meal, 2 desserts for herself(one for there and one for home) and I thought this girl is out her mind. She ended up not eating anything and paid for it all. Like $80, which is a lot to me for Claimjumpers(her choice).

Stick to the smaller cheaper meals..In N Out, Carls Jr., Subway etc.
If she is anything like Luckygem, or UnluckyGem or these other females, you'll be glad you spent under $20 for food and $20 for liquor. If she is anything like most women, her self-esteem will be so bad that she will overlook the "cheapo" factor and end up spending the night with you anyways. Most women who complain about cheap men are the ones sitting around Friday night with big ben the pleasure toy or sipping $10 wine watching the oxygen channel or something. Either that or married, and they don't count anyways, because you never spend money on a marry woman, only a lil "protection" investment at Target on the way over.

I would never have a man take me for an expensive meal on a first date. The onlyway I do that is if he selects the place. Even then, I still don't order the most expensive thing on the menu.

Your attitude is the very reason why women have low self-esteem. Nice to know you're sitting around waiting to exploit it. Your mother must be so proud.

[Curious Jay]

Originally Posted by katenik

jay,

i will get back to you on this. i've been busy today, and i would like to give your post the response that it is due.

*cowers* Just kidding.

But seriously, I just may have come off a lot snarkier and sarcastic then I meant to. I assure you I'm just jabbing you in a friendly, innocuous way - no real offense intended. I'm offering an apology cos I resent the closet man-haters who came to hijack my thread, and I don't want it to continue.

THIS IS ABOUT DATE IDEAS - NOT HOW CHEAP YOU THINK I AM. THOSE WHO CANNOT STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE SCRAM. VIELEN DANKE, MERCI BEAUCOUP, MUCHOS GRACIAS, SIE SIE NIE, DOMO ARIGATO, and much more.

[Curious Jay]

Originally Posted by Charles

First date? You know you need to keep it as low key as possible. Forget the cooler and booze. What message would you be sending? What might she think of your judgment, especially breaking the law?

Ferris Wheel? Pier Stroll? Sounds good, especially if you are familiar with parking and everything goes smooth, no worries, hassles, traffic, etc. Want to reduce tension/stress/risk as much as possible. Who isn't just a little nervous on a first date?

My first date with my wife was simply Starbucks and chat. (We'd broken the ice with several phone calls in the prior weeks so she already knew I was a dork.) Later dates were bike rides on the bikeway in Santa Monica and hiking.

Getty Museum? Are either of you familiar with it? I've never been there. I've heard it was really good; I'd think on a first date you'd want to pay more attention to your date than both of you constantly attending to the exhibits....something to think about...might be too distracting? Sort of the same for the Tesla exhibits and such at the Planetarium?? Maybe a second or third date?

I think the overall message is low key, relax, an environment that encourages talking but not too boring.

What the heck, let us know how it goes.

And for the record, I've found kate's and Charles' posts most helpful. Thanks guys. I get your point about being too distracted by the activity to get to know each other, but we work part-time in the same business and we've gotten to talk to each other a fair bit so maybe an activity-based date isn't such a bad idea. Talked with her, and unfortunately she may not be able to get out of work this weekend. She counter-offered for next week so it's on - just on stand-by.

So for now - it's the Griffith Observatory. Additional suggestions and ideas are always welcome as long as they're on topic!

[CESpeed]

I'm not a man hater. I LOOOOVE men. It's the sleazy game player little boys who are pretending to be men that I don't like. There's nothing wrong with being poor. If that's all you can afford, fine. (Which was my original point) But to deliberately go on a cheap date because you may not have sex with a person is just sleazy. That attitude and running into it one too many times is what creates "man-haters". You get out what you put in.

[katenik]

Originally Posted by Curious Jay

*cowers* Just kidding.

But seriously, I just may have come off a lot snarkier and sarcastic then I meant to. I assure you I'm just jabbing you in a friendly, innocuous way - no real offense intended. I'm offering an apology cos I resent the closet man-haters who came to hijack my thread, and I don't want it to continue.

THIS IS ABOUT DATE IDEAS - NOT HOW CHEAP YOU THINK I AM. THOSE WHO CANNOT STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE SCRAM. VIELEN DANKE, MERCI BEAUCOUP, MUCHOS GRACIAS, SIE SIE NIE, DOMO ARIGATO, and much more.

in that case, i'll keep it brief.

A) no contradiction at all. if you put some thought into showing a woman a nice time, she'll appreciate your effort, whether you opt for a picnic under the stars or a five-star restaurant. if the only thought you put into the endeavor is how cheap you can make it, it will show.

the problem that i have with the intentionally cheap date is this: in my experience, people who are overly concerned with how much money they are spending "on someone else" usually lack generosity of spirit, and are just as stingy with their time, caring, and affection as well. they aren't givers, and i wouldn't want a second date with a person like that. people who are genuinely giving, but also genuinely broke, manage to find ways to express the measure of their regard for other people without spending money they don't have, and that shows, too.

B) if a woman sleeps with a guy on a first date, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he has spent "enough" on her. she already feels unworthy, and money is no cure for that.

that is all.

(enjoy the observatory, whenever you get there.)

[montevista1]

If she likes sports, hiking, bicycling on beach etc. Rock climbing at gym. If not id go for tea in melrose or hollywood. this way u can walk around make observe interesting shops, people etc.

[LaoTzuMindFu]

I second the Getty Center and Griffith Observatory ideas. Very cool first date destinations. Parking I believe is free at Getty and the museum itself is free. You can take a romantic walk in the Getty Garden and on a clear day you can see all the way to the ocean.

[Cubancoffee]

Parking at the Getty is $8/vehicle.

[Hungry For Cheese]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

I would never have a man take me for an expensive meal on a first date. The onlyway I do that is if he selects the place. Even then, I still don't order the most expensive thing on the menu.

Your attitude is the very reason why women have low self-esteem. Nice to know you're sitting around waiting to exploit it. Your mother must be so proud.

I missed this post...but my attitude towards woman has drastically changed since a year ago. I'm tired of putting time into females, yeah they've been younger immature girls, but still. Being Mr. Nice Guy got me nowhere. Still the complaining etc etc. I'm very honest now when I meet a girl. I am myself and don't try to act nice like most people do for the first month. But actually I tell them I don't want a relationship, and I am open for a sexual friendship. I won't hold their hands, I won't give public affection, but I will be a friend. Whether they accept that or not is up to them, but you know what? They usually accept it, and if it's that "motherly nature" where they think they can change my mind, that's on them too. I could care less what my mother thought of me, she didn't raise me. Someday I'll hit the switch and be Mr. Romance to the right woman, but for now it's all about me*.

*doesn't mean I rag on women and try to bring their self-esteem down.