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Yes we know Tule that CA processes are full of red tape that only delays the progress of most everything. I know you have nothing to compare it with but it's easy to see how other states get things done without the bureaucratic red tape bs you find in CA.
Yes we know Tule that CA processes are full of red tape that only delays the progress of most everything. I know you have nothing to compare it with but it's easy to see how other states get things done without the bureaucratic red tape bs you find in CA.
Well, I’m curious what “red tape” you are referring to? Do you suggest that the constitutionally based laws as interpreted by circuit and supreme courts are limited to California with regard to forcible detainments and “treatments”?
We agree apparently, you, Exitus, 2sleepy, myself - all - that the mentally ill homeless should be housed and treated. Great. So it comes now to discuss how how that can be done legally, efficiently, and affordably. Right?
Well, I’m curious what “red tape” you are referring to? Do you suggest that the constitutionally based laws as interpreted by circuit and supreme courts are limited to California with regard to forcible detainments and “treatments”?
You have no clue do you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
We agree apparently, you, Exitus, 2sleepy, myself - all - that the mentally ill homeless should be housed and treated. Great. So it comes now to discuss how how that can be done legally, efficiently, and affordably. Right?
Let's take the example of the mentally ill homeless lady that tossed coffee in the donuts store owners face.
This person needs to be removed immediately from society. However under CA red tape bureaucratic system it will NEVER happen. This is the reason why we see so many mentally ill people roaming the streets in CA.
Below is an example of the bureaucratic bs misappropriation of funds that CA is notorious for. I have been witnessing voters go out and vote to raise taxes over the past 10 years, to only find out what they thought the money was going to fund does not get funded.
This is one of many examples of voters being duped at the polls. You think they would figure it out by now. It seems logical to me to never vote to give money to a government that is notorious for misappropriating funds. I wonder why the voters in CA have not figured this out yet?
INTRO TO MHSA
In 2004, California voters altruistically passed Proposition 63 (Mental Health Services Act (MHSA), a 1% tax on millionaires to help people with “severe mental illness” and to “prevent mental illness from becoming severe and disabling.” It raises over $1.5 billion annually and is an important program that does a lot of good.
***But mental health commissioners, CalMHSA and the oversight commission (MHSOAC) encouraged social services programs that have little to do with serious mental illness to masquerade as mental illness programs to enable them to claim MHSA funds. This leads to programs that fail to serve the seriously ill being showered with funds while those that do serve the seriously ill go unfunded.
Our report, MHSA: A Bait and Switch found this unmitigated mission-creep, insider dealing, and lack of oversight, found $1-2 Billion of Prevention and Early Intervention (PEI) Funds was intentionally diverted to social service programs masquerading as mental illness programs or falsely claim they prevent serious mental illness.
$2.5 billion of the “Full Service Partnership (FSP) funds were spent without oversight of whether the recipients had schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or the other serious mental illnesses that made them eligible for MHSA funds.
Why is public in dark about this?
$11 million in MHSA funds went to hire a P.R. firm that works to convince the media that all is well.
They continually issue press releases and call editorial boards to extol the virtues of the program.
County mental health directors and recipients of the diverted funds benefit from the status quo and therefore defend it. Governor Brown, former state Senator Steinberg and his successors appointed recipients of MHSA funds to sit on the Oversight Commission. As a result of this conflict, MHSA is being overseen by beneficiaries of funds and cheerleaders for mission creep, rather than stewards of the public purse.
This is not what voters wanted to happen or were told would happen. Money is not the issue. Leadership is.
Are you now clear as to why we see so many mentally ill homeless folks roaming the streets in CA?
Let's take the example of the mentally ill homeless lady that tossed coffee in the donuts store owners face.
This person needs to be removed immediately from society. However under CA red tape bureaucratic system it will NEVER happen. This is the reason why we see so many mentally ill people roaming the streets in CA.
Actually, I think I said it thousands of posts ago, though your friend 2sleepy said we can't do that because "civil rights". I think you should go ahead and tell her otherwise.
Why don't you show me the post where I said that the mentally ill shouldn't be provided treatment because of "civil rights"? What I said was that you cannot involuntarily confine someone who is not an immediate danger to themself or others. That is as true today as when I said it. Two bills were introduced to expand upon the definition of 'gravely disabled', AB2156 and AB1971, both failed.
Laura's law which allows for conservators to manage the care of the seriously mentally ill was expanded this year in SB1045 but I'm uncertain that it will make much of a difference. Los Angeles County waited until 2015 to officially implement Laura's law which was passed in 2004 and all I was able to find was a brochure about it, I haven't been able to find any stats on how many mentally ill are involved in the program (if any)
I don't write these laws, but I have familiarity with the W&I sections pertaining to the mentally ill.
They are available for everyone to read, but it doesn't appear that many people who follow this thread bother to do so. Like it or not, those are the laws that are followed when a decision is made to involuntarily confine a mentally ill person.
But, it seems that rather than having a discussion based on legal and economically feasible solutions to homelessness it's more fun to twist what I say and then dismiss it as nonsense, then spend the rest of the day fantasizing about how much fun it will be to have massive roundups of the homeless and confine them indefinitely to camps in the desert.
Given some of the detailed dystopian visions some folks here offer as solutions to homelessness Moderator cut: see note
Last edited by Count David; 12-10-2018 at 11:35 PM..
Reason: You could have done without that last part.
You have no clue do you.
Let's take the example of the mentally ill homeless lady that tossed coffee in the donuts store owners face.
This person needs to be removed immediately from society. However under CA red tape bureaucratic system it will NEVER happen. This is the reason why we see so many mentally ill people roaming the streets in CA.
Perhaps you can look into how other states do it.
Read this while you are at it.
California has an AOT law, it's called Laura's Law, it's been in effect since 2004. It's just that Los Angeles didn't even sign on to it until 2015 and as far as I can tell they still haven't fully implemented it. There were two attempts this year to expand on the California definition of gravely disabled - both failed.
The case you cite about a woman throwing coffee at a store owner - that has nothing to do with mental health laws, that is a criminal offense. I looked at an article about the incident and found this:
If she is located she will be arrested and prosecuted, why is it so hard for you to understand that you can't "immediately remove someone from society" if they flee the crime scene?
Below is an example of the bureaucratic bs misappropriation of funds that CA is notorious for. I have been witnessing voters go out and vote to raise taxes over the past 10 years, to only find out what they thought the money was going to fund does not get funded.
This is one of many examples of voters being duped at the polls. You think they would figure it out by now. It seems logical to me to never vote to give money to a government that is notorious for misappropriating funds. I wonder why the voters in CA have not figured this out yet?
INTRO TO MHSA
In 2004, California voters altruistically passed Proposition 63 (Mental Health Services Act (MHSA), a 1% tax on millionaires to help people with “severe mental illness” and to “prevent mental illness from becoming severe and disabling.” It raises over $1.5 billion annually and is an important program that does a lot of good.
***But mental health commissioners, CalMHSA and the oversight commission (MHSOAC) encouraged social services programs that have little to do with serious mental illness to masquerade as mental illness programs to enable them to claim MHSA funds. This leads to programs that fail to serve the seriously ill being showered with funds while those that do serve the seriously ill go unfunded.
Our report, MHSA: A Bait and Switch found this unmitigated mission-creep, insider dealing, and lack of oversight, found $1-2 Billion of Prevention and Early Intervention (PEI) Funds was intentionally diverted to social service programs masquerading as mental illness programs or falsely claim they prevent serious mental illness.
$2.5 billion of the “Full Service Partnership (FSP) funds were spent without oversight of whether the recipients had schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or the other serious mental illnesses that made them eligible for MHSA funds.
Why is public in dark about this?
$11 million in MHSA funds went to hire a P.R. firm that works to convince the media that all is well.
They continually issue press releases and call editorial boards to extol the virtues of the program.
County mental health directors and recipients of the diverted funds benefit from the status quo and therefore defend it. Governor Brown, former state Senator Steinberg and his successors appointed recipients of MHSA funds to sit on the Oversight Commission. As a result of this conflict, MHSA is being overseen by beneficiaries of funds and cheerleaders for mission creep, rather than stewards of the public purse.
This is not what voters wanted to happen or were told would happen. Money is not the issue. Leadership is.
Are you now clear as to why we see so many mentally ill homeless folks roaming the streets in CA?
Now this is an excellent post. Good for you to contribute.
Shameful as it appears however (I’d have to learn more to really weigh in ... but it looks bad, certainly) ... this sort of thing isn’t unique to California. Severely mentally ill roam streets all over the country. Streets of Seattle, Portland, Honolulu, Washington D.C. - are no different ... loaded with public crazies.
That all said, and agreed, there are approximately 150,000 seriously mentally ill homeless in America right now.
Estimates are that there are 16,000,000 seriously mentally ill in the nation, however.
Which means that approximately 15,850,000 seriously mentally ill ARE being housed at least ... and many of those in one sort of treatment or another, and / or under medication protocol.
So, in spite of wasteful, special-interest-manipulation, as you just cited, the ones falling through the cracks are a terrible but relatively small percentage.
Below is an example of the bureaucratic bs misappropriation of funds that CA is notorious for. I have been witnessing voters go out and vote to raise taxes over the past 10 years, to only find out what they thought the money was going to fund does not get funded.
This is one of many examples of voters being duped at the polls. You think they would figure it out by now. It seems logical to me to never vote to give money to a government that is notorious for misappropriating funds. I wonder why the voters in CA have not figured this out yet?
Now this is an excellent post. Good for you to contribute.
Shameful as it appears however (I’d have to learn more to really weigh in ... but it looks bad, certainly) ... this sort of thing isn’t unique to California.
Does it really matter whether or not it's unique to CA?
The point is this state will never see this issue addressed as long as the leadership is not held accountable. CA government does whatever it wants with the tax money it receives. It lies to the public who voted to raise the taxes for X but the tax money went to fund z instead.
This is one glaring example of why the mentally ill homeless are not receiving the help they need. Look at all the people who benefited from this misappropriation of funds signed over by good old Jerry and his cronies.
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