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Old 03-27-2019, 05:34 PM
 
7,767 posts, read 4,971,734 times
Reputation: 13363

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacktravern View Post
So much here to go over
1)You can't just dismiss the cold. I grew up in NYC winters. ...
Good point! Weather/climate matters in fundamental ways. Heating a drafty, older house in a harsh winter can be expensive... several hundred dollars per month, for 4-6 months a year (or more). In my part of the country, where house-prices are ridiculously low, it's not uncommon to spend more on heating-bills than on mortgage payments.

In the city, there are municipal efforts to deal with winter... such as snow-plows. Mass transit generally runs even in inclement weather. Power-lines are often buried underground. In the Midwestern countryside, none of this is true. Snow comes, and you're on your own. Good luck.

So, for me, the issue is less about ALL colder areas in America imposing a particular hardship, than the poorer towns and rural areas with the most severe climates; that is, in the Midwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacktravern View Post
2)Lets be honest, some of those places like New Mexico or Reno have nothing at all going on except maybe a casino and not much else, and that can get old real quick. ....
That's another good point! The more prosperous and vibrant cities are all fairly expensive... maybe less expensive than LA, but still expensive. Dallas and Atlanta might have housing-prices half of those of LA, but step 100 miles outside of Dallas or Atlanta, and the housing-prices are again lower by half (or more).

But, there's a value proposition here. Some cities are outrageously expensive, and while living there is pleasant, it's only so-pleasant. Other cities are substantially less expensive, but only slightly less pleasant places to live. They offer more value. The ideal, one presumes, is to maximize value - which for persons with different tastes and different life-circumstances may mean that a "world class" city is absolutely essential, or entirely to the contrary.
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Old 03-27-2019, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
1,956 posts, read 2,564,763 times
Reputation: 3626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Good point! Weather/climate matters in fundamental ways. Heating a drafty, older house in a harsh winter can be expensive... several hundred dollars per month, for 4-6 months a year (or more). In my part of the country, where house-prices are ridiculously low, it's not uncommon to spend more on heating-bills than on mortgage payments.


That's another good point! The more prosperous and vibrant cities are all fairly expensive... maybe less expensive than LA, but still expensive. Dallas and Atlanta might have housing-prices half of those of LA, but step 100 miles outside of Dallas or Atlanta, and the housing-prices are again lower by half (or more).

.
Funny you mention Atlanta, b/c my friend bought a cheap house there (under 200k), but I kid you not when I say I didn't even feel comfotable leaving my car there for 3-4 hours when we went to hang out. It was straight gutter. So I guess if nothing else, I will admit, even the hood in LA is fairly costly by comparison.
But something else people arent talking about here.....I looked at the Atlanta pay scale for my job, I would be taking an 19K per year pay cut. In Las Vegas, 25K. Nahhhh, can't do it.
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:03 PM
 
Location: 130 Miles E of Sacramento
5,383 posts, read 3,267,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacktravern View Post
Moving from California to these places is a drastic lifestyle change. And again, for many of us, a huge paycut to move
Moving to places like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc... and your money goes further
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: 130 Miles E of Sacramento
5,383 posts, read 3,267,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacktravern View Post
at the end of the day, many people realize there's more to life than just a cheap house
Jobs don't pay enough in LA to afford a home or rent eats up most of your monthly income, and it's hard to enjoy what So Cal offers when you have little to money left.

Average homes in LA and San Fernando Valley costs around 1/2 a million (500k) and you need to make 125-150k. In Orange County, homes are around 800k and you need to make 250-300k. You can find homes less than that but you'd have to live in the slums in Buena Park, Anaheim, or Santa Ana. It's even worse up north in the Bay Area.
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
1,956 posts, read 2,564,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevroqs View Post
Moving to places like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc... and your money goes further
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevroqs View Post
Jobs don't pay enough in LA to afford a home or rent eats up most of your monthly income, and it's hard to enjoy what So Cal offers when you have little to money left.

Average homes in LA and San Fernando Valley costs around 1/2 a million (500k) and you need to make 125-150k. In Orange County, homes are around 800k and you need to make 250-300k. You can find homes less than that but you'd have to live in the slums in Buena Park, Anaheim, or Santa Ana. It's even worse up north in the Bay Area.
The nicer parts of Houston and Dallas are not that cheap, and as mentioned, myself and many others would be taking huge paycuts to get to these places. Same for Atlanta...the slums, and the extreme outskirts are cheaper than LA, but not CHEAP. And if it is Cheap, like wher emy friend lives, it's likely a god-awful neighborhood. For a 20K or more paycut, your money is not going that much furthur.

You tend to exaggerate about rent eating up too much of your income. My rent is like 20% of montly gross and I live in a farly expensive area. I save a bunch and still get out to enjoy So Cal plenty. But I also didn't have kid after kid after kid....
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:32 PM
 
17,432 posts, read 10,504,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacktravern View Post
The nicer parts of Houston and Dallas are not that cheap, and as mentioned, myself and many others would be taking huge paycuts to get to these places. Same for Atlanta...the slums, and the extreme outskirts are cheaper than LA, but not CHEAP. And if it is Cheap, like wher emy friend lives, it's likely a god-awful neighborhood. For a 20K or more paycut, your money is not going that much furthur.

You tend to exaggerate about rent eating up too much of your income. My rent is like 20% of montly gross and I live in a farly expensive area. I save a bunch and still get out to enjoy So Cal plenty. But I also didn't have kid after kid after kid....
Just drove through Dallas, TX today and there are homes being built everywhere and beautiful homes. Oh, one development showed listing for new homes starting at just above $100,000.00. Yes the prop taxes are higher, but the cost of a home is so good that they are far less than a dump in SoCal.



Then no State income tax a much lower price for gas and even the sales tax is ... 8.25%. Try and find that in any desirable area or less desirable area, in CA. The land is beautiful, lakes everywhere, no major water issues. Not every part of TX is like West TX. A portion larger than CA has really nice areas and people are not crammed into neighborhoods, but can actually have a nice lot and room to do a lot of things. Oh and for the party crowd tons of restaurants, bars, taverns, etc.



I was even amazed that with heavy traffic when I drove in, the crowded freeways still flowed quite well and more frwy options in the city than LA has for sure. To each their own, but no place is better than another to everyone and even the popular places have tremendous problems that impact the QOL, even when you can afford to live there. I know I was born and raised in SoCal, lived in LA, OC, SD and the IE and still own businesses there. It has changed beyond belief from when I grew up there and is not getting better, just more crowded and expensive.



Mind you a lot of popular areas are facing similar problems, but there are still a huge number with a better QOL and COL. Enjoy CA if you can, but many are tired of it. There are just a few areas I would move back to, near the coast, if I ever decided to. CA is still my favorite State, but more for its beauty than what it has become on a daily basis, as to QOL and COL.
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,434,612 times
Reputation: 21996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texamichiforniasota View Post
The data is a few years old, but suprisingly, to some, there is not really a drip off below 40K. Even under $15,000/yr there is a large out-migration.

https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265

Around $90,000/yr out-migration slows to a trickle and above $110,000 there is in-migration, growing larger the higher the income.

Don't expect California to run out of poor people. They have more kids than their middle class counterparts, and they also make up a large share of immigrants. California does appear to be losing a lot of it's lower-middle class.
The poor are having a tough time finding landlords who will take section 8 vouchers, even in Sacramento which is cheap compared to LA or the SF Bay Area. I would expect that if they have the means to move they will because if they can't use the voucher within 6 months they lose it and there is a 5-7 year wait to get one and that's 'if' you are lucky enough to win the lottery and get on the waitlist.
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,434,612 times
Reputation: 21996
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Just drove through Dallas, TX today and there are homes being built everywhere and beautiful homes. Oh, one development showed listing for new homes starting at just above $100,000.00. Yes the prop taxes are higher, but the cost of a home is so good that they are far less than a dump in SoCal.
These are the single family homes for sale in Dallas for under $125,000 I sure don't see any beautiful new homes https://www.redfin.com/city/30794/TX...,status=active
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:39 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,622 posts, read 14,886,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Just drove through Dallas, TX today and there are homes being built everywhere and beautiful homes.
But then you actually have to live in Dallas.
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,434,612 times
Reputation: 21996
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
But then you actually have to live in Dallas.
therein lies the problem
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