Middle Class Flight (Beverly Hills, San Fernando: sales, to rent, crime)

[James T]

Lower middle class neighborhoods have been turning into low income neighborhoods for quite a while. What were once clean and respectable places to live are now rife with violent crime, gangs, graffitti, cars on lawns, and free roaming dogs and chickens. The only middle class neighborhoods to remain will be upper middle class, as long as nothing is done to curb the flow of illegal aliens into CA.

Honestly, are there any neighborhoods that have improved after illegal aliens took over them?

[majoun]

Originally Posted by James T

Lower middle class neighborhoods have been turning into low income neighborhoods for quite a while.

Some. Others have turned into upper middle class neighborhoods thanks to gentrification, which is also driving out LA's middle class (the smallest of any American city)

[majoun]

Originally Posted by aween

Have you talked to anybody in Canada about this? THEY HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!
And dont dare for a second think that if we get universal health care,everything will be right in the world. Our hospitals will keep getting more and more crowded. It will not work in Los Angeles..plain and simple. We have tooooo many people!!!!!

I have plenty of friends in Canada. They all admit the flaws of their National Health but all admit its preferable to what exists in the US.

I never said universal health care is a panacea, just a step in the right direction.

It would work in LA better than what exists right now. BTW, Los Angeles and London have about the same population, and not even Maggie Thatcher proposed doing away with the NHS due to "having too many people". Crowded hospitals are better than no hospitals at all.

[Steadykat]

Ah, the myth of good Canadian healthcare. First, look up the total number of MRI machines in Canada. Now, look up the number of MRI machines in L.A. County. If you do you will find that L.A. County has more MRI's than the entire country of Canada. Don't believe me, look it up. Forget your friends stories about Canada's heathcare. I talk to doctors who have to work within it's constraints. I have yet to me one who is happy with it.

Taxing Doctors and Hospitals isn't going to help out the healthcare situaction in CA. Ask any person working in the healthcare industry in SoCal about the impact of illegal aliens on their facility. It has devastated Hospitals in that region. I believe that about 20 SoCal facilities have closed down in the last 4 years. A Hospital my wife worked at had 300+ babies born in it each month, almost exclusively to illegal alien parents. It finally had to close it's doors. The other Hospital that my wife worked at, 10 miles away, summarily closed down it's OB/GYN to prevent the same patient overun of it's facilities. This meant that any (tax paying) expecting mother who lived nearby had to now drive 30 miles to the next closest Hospital for her prenatal and birthing care.

I listened to Arnold's speech the other night. The GOV cited several problems affecting CA, overcrowded Hospitals, overcrowded prisons, overcrowded schools and overcrowded freeways. It's funny, alot of these problems would dissappear if our Government just enforced the immigration laws we already have on the "books".

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Steadykat

Ah, the myth of good Canadian healthcare. First, look up the total number of MRI machines in Canada. Now, look up the number of MRI machines in L.A. County. If you do you will find that L.A. County has more MRI's than the entire country of Canada. Don't believe me, look it up. Forget your friends stories about Canada's heathcare.

>They all admit its flaws but would any of them trade it for the US system? No one whom I talked to.

I talk to doctors who have to work within it's constraints.

>As doctors make less money under the Canadian system I could understand them being unhappy with it. In any case doctors are not the only stakeholders when it comes to health care.

I have yet to me one who is happy with it.

>If those hospitals keep closing down than there won't be as many MRIs in L.A. County than in the entire country of Canada. (Also remember that Canada has a smaller population than California does)

Taxing Doctors and Hospitals isn't going to help out the healthcare situaction in CA. Ask any person working in the healthcare industry in SoCal about the impact of illegal aliens on their facility. It has devastated Hospitals in that region. I believe that about 20 SoCal facilities have closed down in the last 4 years. A Hospital my wife worked at had 300+ babies born in it each month, almost exclusively to illegal alien parents. It finally had to close it's doors. The other Hospital that my wife worked at, 10 miles away, summarily closed down it's OB/GYN to prevent the same patient overun of it's facilities.

>Just a question, if you know Canadian health care professionals: are hospitals closing in Canada as well? ):
Not a single bankruptcy in Canada is due to health care costs ; 50% of American bankruptcies are the result of health care costs.

This meant that any (tax paying) expecting mother who lived nearby had to now drive 30 miles to the next closest Hospital for her prenatal and birthing care.

>With universal health care, hospitals wouldn't be closing. A completely privatized medical system makes no more sense than a completely privatized military.

I listened to Arnold's speech the other night. The GOV cited several problems affecting CA, overcrowded Hospitals, overcrowded prisons, overcrowded schools and overcrowded freeways. It's funny, alot of these problems would dissappear if our Government just enforced the immigration laws we already have on the "books".

>Now you're getting all utopian. Those problems would ease, in some cases tremendously, but would not disappear. I'm for enforcing existing immigration laws however California will never return to how it was in 1960 even if all illegals would leave. The health care crisis is not merely confined to California, it's nationwide. Arnold's plan would be an important step in the right direction. It certainly wouldn't solve ALL our problems but it would help ease medical costs, which are a big burden on all Californians except the very wealthy. This would at least be a sign that things would finally be turning around after 3 decades of decline.

[looking4home]

[quote=majoun;269922]I doubt you have any experience with any National Health systems in countries that do have them. (I have direct experience with the German and Italian public health care systems and both are far better than the PRIVATE health care system in the US except for the wealthy)

Sorry, but that's a lie. A huge one. Why do some Americans think "Europe is doing it better"? Their health care system is appalling. No American would put up with the low standards they have. Besides, everything is not a bed of roses there, and they have their own version of "crisises". Their hospitals are overcrowded, with patients with serious illnesses waiting months to see a doctor. There's never enough hospital beds for patients, and they are often left lying on gurneys in the hospital corridors. The doctors, nurses, medical equipment, and procedures are not up to our standards, and of very poor quality. They are very primitive in some countries, and Italy is one of them.

Part of the problem is that the E.U. keeps admitting poor nations and opening of the borders to more and more people. Many small countries have been flooded with people from Eastern Europe, who have meager jobs and wages. They have become a major drain on the system. However, European healthcare can be okay if you are wealthy and can afford a private doctor. Just like in the U.S.

[OCCASparky]

Originally Posted by majoun

I have plenty of friends in Canada. They all admit the flaws of their National Health but all admit its preferable to what exists in the US.

I never said universal health care is a panacea, just a step in the right direction.

It would work in LA better than what exists right now. BTW, Los Angeles and London have about the same population, and not even Maggie Thatcher proposed doing away with the NHS due to "having too many people". Crowded hospitals are better than no hospitals at all.

Well, guess what--we're ending up with no hospitals and the ones that are remaining are seriously overcrowded to the point people are dying from substandard care.

Oh, and another thing--I'm not paying 50 percent taxes for crappy medical care. I'll go out and pay for it myself, thanks very much.

[aween]

Our ER is packed with Mexican Illegals(simple colds and non emergencys) knowing that we can not turn them away. They take advantage of the system and in turn help to close down several hospitals. Our sister hospital got closed down due to losing ONE MILLION DOLLARS a month. The hospital workers all had to find other jobs and legal citizens all have to drive further to another hospital. This is insane . This is one of the many reasons why people are moving away.

[SandyCo]

It appears as though this thread is being hijacked into a discussion of national healthcare reform, which probably belongs in the political forum or at least "other topics". Please stay on topic, although merely mentioning healthcare as one of the reasons for middle class flight from L.A. is fine. Thank you.

[newportbeachsmostwanted]

Originally Posted by aween

Our ER is packed with Mexican Illegals(simple colds and non emergencys) knowing that we can not turn them away. .

Actually they're having anchor babies. I believe the anchor baby cost to LA taxpayers is roughly $220 million/year. Can anyone confirm?

Villargoisa- can LA please add more lanes on the 405 freeway instead?! In five years time, why don't we save that $1 billion and use it to build the Metro down Wilshire Blvd. and into Santa Monica.