Middle Class Flight (Granite Bay, Arnold: schools, taxi, to live in)

[Charles]

Originally Posted by montevista1

Also it is known that Hispanics have more children then white this one reason why they are the fastest growing minority!

What is the message the catholic church has for the guy with six kids and who makes $7/hour? It is "Go Ahead, have another kid. The government will take care of it for you with government education, medical coverage, etc. Have more my son. Be fruitful and multiply."

[bigtallredhead]

Also I think there is just too much polarization and status obsession, as well as the inability for most to find a home they can afford in a neigborhood they are willing to live in (that could be for good or bad reasons or neither, -no further comment from me on that).

For the vast majority (not all of coarse) of the native born working class and non upscale middle class and low income population of ANY race or ethnicity, including even the majority of native born hispanics, L.A. and most ( though not all) of Coastal California in general is just not an attractive place to be these days. That is also true of many others who could afford it better but simply don't like how it has become.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Charles

What is the message the catholic church has for the guy with six kids and who makes $7/hour? It is "Go Ahead, have another kid. The government will take care of it for you with government education, medical coverage, etc. Have more my son. Be fruitful and multiply."

Luckily, despite the Catholic church, many catholics are changing, -that already happened in Europe and the U.S. and Canada, now it is happening in Latin America as well. More Mexicans and other Latin Americans are also becoming evangelical protestants as well.

!00 years ago and for the several hundred before that, the U.S. and Europe had sky high fertility and that has now changed, now more and more of the world is seeing fewer young children as well.


The average lifetime fertility for women in mexico is now only 2.4 children overall, but is higher in rural areas which is why it is still over three children for foreign born Mexican women plus do to the high % of illegal migrants who often don't have access to or don't know where to obtain family planing. Thirty years ago in mexico, it was more then 5 children and 50 years ago more then 7 on average, so Mexican fertility is now falling rapidly. most of the rest of Latin America is somewhat behind mexico still, but is rapidly moving in the same direction as well, and Cuba (yes Cuba) has now for some time had below replacement fertility.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by James T

Lower middle class neighborhoods have been turning into low income neighborhoods for quite a while. What were once clean and respectable places to live are now rife with violent crime, gangs, graffitti, cars on lawns, and free roaming dogs and chickens. The only middle class neighborhoods to remain will be upper middle class, as long as nothing is done to curb the flow of illegal aliens into CA.

Honestly, are there any neighborhoods that have improved after illegal aliens took over them?

Not only illegal migrants but also low income legal immigrants and low income Native born Americans of all races/ethnicity's, too, and in other cases gentrification by the well-to-do. -The story of rising neighborhood polarization and decline in middle class neighborhoods sense 1970is all over the country, even where there are few immigrants. But L.A. New York. Miami, etc are among the worst and have changed among the most as they are so expensive and diverse, with an overall highly polarized population.

Income inequality has been rising in the U.S. since 1970, and this has various causes, -industrialization and outsourcing, illegal migration as well as mass LEGAL immigration of both the poor AND the upper middle class but far fewer in between, the decline of Unions, more subcontracting, changing tax structure to benefit the wealthy, reduced access to credit for non upscale and non immigrant small business owners/entrepreneurs, people saving less and spending more recklessly, many being lazy, more class based discrimination, rising housing costs, disinvestment and redlining many communities, etc.. At the heart of all this is too much greed/envy and status obsession-!!!

Really, Globalization and fascist corporatism (led by transnational corporations) -have had a lot to do with this. Illegal immigration is a problem becuase they prefer it that way to reduce labor costs and becuase of bigotry against working class americans. they also prefer souse countries like mexico to remain largely poor but highly unequal and cause displacement there as well which leads to the disire to migrate. They want the labor, but not actualy the people of mexico as U.S. citizens.

They (most of the U.S. political and economic elite as well as well as a large part of the upper middle class.) prefer to have a permanent indentured servant class instead, -bad for both countries and then they play Davide and conquer as part of this trick. Meanwhile, the corrupt Mexican government wants the same thing to avoid responsibility for it's actions or lack thereof, so it encourages migration and point the finger north a the soarce of Mexico's problems. The majority of elite in both countries would like to make as much $$$ as possible until it all falls apart and then they can simply flee to live wherever they want to in the world. They have no true patriotism.

[bigtallredhead]

The above has been greatly encouraged by mass advertising and media propoganda. Me, I chose to try to live a more humble life, -I even grow a lot of my own food in my back yard.

I chose to not even have a T.V.

there is more to enjoying life then mindless consumerism.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by bigtallredhead

-I even grow a lot of my own food in my back yard.

I used to do that too. I quit. You know why? Because it was too expensive - water, fertilizer, amendments, seeds, insecticide. And it took a lot of time. I think I grew $20 potatoes.

[SurekRZA]

Originally Posted by montevista1

300,000 Californians left to places like AZ, NV, ID, TX.

These people are the middle class who even with an education can not afford to live here!!!

If this trend continues CA will be in many ways like a 3rd world country a small minority of wealthy and a huge underclass.

I realize that even with a good job I can not make it here so I am saving up to move out of here!

Im not sure of how fast California is growing but its gaining more people than losing. Stop posting threads about how the middle class is moving! because its hardly true! Thats nice that you're moving. I hope that you prosper wherever you decide to move to, although its not impossible to prosper in California. It's all about networking and getting to know the right people. I met this guy when I first moved to Los Angeles; he is currently 24 years old and he works for Premium Lending in Encino. He also just bought his own house in Tarzana. Pretty amazing for a guy who is only 24 years old and single.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Charles

I used to do that too. I quit. You know why? Because it was too expensive - water, fertilizer, amendments, seeds, insecticide. And it took a lot of time. I think I grew $20 potatoes.

Organic-!!! A bit more work but MUCH cheaper, -and we use natural fertilizers and there are natural compounds as well as "helpful bugs" that reduce prevent problems with crop loss. And we just save the seeds from before, -none of those "designer" seeds with a patent on them, etc.

Companies like Monsanto wont to make people, especially farmers, wholly dependent on them. -Good grief-!!

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by SurekRZA

Im not sure of how fast California is growing but its gaining more people than losing. Stop posting threads about how the middle class is moving! because its hardly true! Thats nice that you're moving. I hope that you prosper wherever you decide to move to, although its not impossible to prosper in California. It's all about networking and getting to know the right people. I met this guy when I first moved to Los Angeles; he is currently 24 years old and he works for Premium Lending in Encino. He also just bought his own house in Tarzana. Pretty amazing for a guy who is only 24 years old and single.

California is growing only becuase of natural encrease (more births then deaths, -and no, not just birth to immigrants.) and net international immigration. The state has net domestic migration loss. -Even a lot of immigrants are leaving. Housing prises are absurd. Of coarse some can do well here, -good for them!! But for most of us working and lower middle class folks, California is not the best place to be by a long shot these days. Yes, the very affluent are moving in more then leaving, but not so for the rest of the population.

-But I guess just any significant encrease in population means middle class people are moving here in droves. What great math, huh...

[Curious Jay]

Just curious - what salary range does the O.P. (or anyone) consider middle income? What family income level? $35,000/yr? $50,000/yr? or $60,000/yr?