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Old 05-09-2020, 01:34 AM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
3,982 posts, read 2,869,748 times
Reputation: 2478

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California will be one of the last. Newsome was a successful businessman before switching to politics. Of course he takes prides in his management of the economy and is already doing things like having restaurants do government-subsidized delivery to some of the elderly population. Also, he likes to repeatedly point out that California was fiscally doing very well before the pandemic, as I guess a buffer to the economic crisis.

Quote:
No we are not weak, we refuse to give up our liberty for short term security.
There won't be security for a long time in a place where COVID-19 has been allowed to move through at close to its natural pace. For example, gutted branches of government and very understaffed police and medical departments.
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Old 05-09-2020, 01:47 AM
 
Location: moved
10,170 posts, read 6,185,303 times
Reputation: 17148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Very impressive speech, Daniel Webster... but cheese-whiz, this is only couple of months for cryin out loud. Good thing you didn’t sign up for the military where you’d be sent off for 6 - 13 months at a time, multiple times - without many of these “freedoms” you are so addicted to.
Last I checked, in the United States of America, persons who serve in the military VOLUNTARILY do so; that has been the case since around 1973. Those who voluntarily undertake some choice, presumably do so knowingly. If they surrender freedoms, they do so in exchange for something - be it merely the glory and honor of service... or perhaps camaraderie and experience... or perhaps a pension and health-insurance.

Last I checked, no private citizens were asked whether they wish to volunteer to be quarantined.

Last I checked, the military is a form of employment. Soldiers get paid, do they not? And that's in addition to room and board (albeit perhaps second or third-rate room and board). The "sacrifice" currently being mandated, is in many cases unemployment... to the tune of >30M new cases.

Last I checked, it was not a mere two months. California's quarantine is already approaching 2 months. Do you seriously think that General Secretary Newsome will decree, at the next Party Congress, that the Central Committee has voted to conclude the quarantine?

"Freedom" - in those smarmy quotes, or untrammeled by such indignity - is not an addiction. It's a set of values. Do you find those values to be trite, misplaced or wrongheaded?
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Old 05-09-2020, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,106 posts, read 2,214,489 times
Reputation: 4922
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post

"Freedom" - in those smarmy quotes, or untrammeled by such indignity - is not an addiction. It's a set of values. Do you find those values to be trite, misplaced or wrongheaded?
LMAO...the poster you are barking at did a tour of duty in the jungles of Vietnam defending your freedom when you were a mere lad in diapers.

So get off the sanctimonious soap box already.
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:27 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,106 posts, read 2,214,489 times
Reputation: 4922
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Last I checked, in the United States of America, persons who serve in the military VOLUNTARILY do so; that has been the case since around 1973. Those who voluntarily undertake some choice, presumably do so knowingly. If they surrender freedoms, they do so in exchange for something - be it merely the glory and honor of service... or perhaps camaraderie and experience... or perhaps a pension and health-insurance.

Last I checked, no private citizens were asked whether they wish to volunteer to be quarantined.

Last I checked, the military is a form of employment. Soldiers get paid, do they not? And that's in addition to room and board (albeit perhaps second or third-rate room and board). The "sacrifice" currently being mandated, is in many cases unemployment... to the tune of >30M new cases.
Take your ideological straightjacket off for a second and peak into a history book: there have been numerous occasions when the U.S. has had a draft. And the U.S. Supreme Court has held it constitutional.

This is not the first time the US has faced a life-threatening epidemic. The power to quarantine is well established in US history and law.

The Founding Fathers saw mass death due to the mosquito-borne Yellow Fever on a nearly year-in, year-out basis in the 1790s. And so they quarantined. In 1798 conditions became so bad that the governor of Pennsylvania banned travel between Philadelphia and New York.

In 1824, the U.S. Supreme Court in Gibbons v. Ogden ruled that that one of the powers the state possessed was the power to quarantine. As Chief Justice Marshall put it, the power to quarantine was seen as a power “flowing from the acknowledged power of a State to provide for the health of its citizens.”

The courts have been there, done that. You squawking about your freedoms on C-D or elsewhere isn't going to change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Last I checked, it was not a mere two months. California's quarantine is already approaching 2 months. Do you seriously think that General Secretary Newsome will decree, at the next Party Congress, that the Central Committee has voted to conclude the quarantine?
Finally, can you at least spell comrade Newsom's name correctly?
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Corona del Mar & Coronado, CA
2,732 posts, read 1,610,910 times
Reputation: 3431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
The Founding Fathers saw mass death due to the mosquito-borne Yellow Fever on a nearly year-in, year-out basis in the 1790s. And so they quarantined. In 1798 conditions became so bad that the governor of Pennsylvania banned travel between Philadelphia and New York.
Except of course they had no idea Yellow Fever was transmitted by mosquitoes. They might have acted differently if they had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
In 1824, the U.S. Supreme Court in Gibbons v. Ogden ruled that that one of the powers the state possessed was the power to quarantine. As Chief Justice Marshall put it, the power to quarantine was seen as a power “flowing from the acknowledged power of a State to provide for the health of its citizens.”
Except of course everyone understood that under the Commerce Clause the federal government had the authority to detain individuals exposed to communicable diseases, not an entire state. No one has ever understood Gibbons to have that kind of power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
The courts have been there, done that. You squawking about your freedoms on C-D or elsewhere isn't going to change that.
The courts, especially SCOTUS, have NOT "been there, done that". The only other case even close to on point is Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, and in that case, healthy people were not quarantined, they were merely prevented from entering a city that was under quarantine. And in this case, it applied to cities and counties, not an entire state the size of CA. Also note that in this case, the people were coming in from outside the country, not within. Compagnie Francaise is usually considered more immigration/entry into the U.S. case involving quarantine, not exclusively a quarantine case.

You could maybe lean on Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur to prevent people from entering or leaving the City of LA, but that should have no effect on Trinity County, or even Orange County, for that matter.

So no, SCOTUS has never ruled on anything like this.

Last edited by TimTheEnchanter; 05-09-2020 at 09:25 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-09-2020, 11:46 AM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
3,982 posts, read 2,869,748 times
Reputation: 2478
Strictly speaking, nobody in California is quarantined. People are allowed to leave home and go to many places. (Sometimes authorities have implied otherwise, but never claimed power to enforce it.) Therefore, the legality is not in question and no stay-at-home lawsuits in the state that I know of.
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Old 05-09-2020, 02:26 PM
 
17,802 posts, read 22,327,960 times
Reputation: 36139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
LMAO...the poster you are barking at did a tour of duty in the jungles of Vietnam defending your freedom when you were a mere lad in diapers.

So get off the sanctimonious soap box already.
Please. The Vietnam War had nothing to do with "Defending Our Freedom". It was a complete waste of life and time and US(once again)had no business being there. It was President Lyndon Johnson who turned it into full scale war. Google "The Gulf of Tonkin".

The loss of Vietnamese civilians, young American lives, and for what? So let's not pretend it had anything to do with our freedom.

That poster does plenty of barking himself.

Funny how you talk about freedom, yet you tell that poster to basically shut up. It used to be in the US(and even during the Vietnam War which divided this nation) that people could agree to disagree, there was a saying "I disagree with what your saying, but I will defend your right to say it".

The US is imploding on itself, years of propping up an economy like a house of cards, "leaders"( I use that word very loosely) who for the most part never put the needs of the American people or this country first. Having a majority of people in this country(not all) who don't pay attention, have become very self involved, have an arrogant and ignorant attitude(even after (9/11) that America is above having the issues that so many other countries have, well it isn't.

And you might want to try listening to Americans who weren't born here, who came from other countries due to living in a country that had a govt. that crushed their rights, where it was economically impossible to just get by, so they learned another language English, left their native country and some leaving friends and family behind, worked and studied and became US citizens.

I know quite a few, they're not happy the direction this country has been going, many expressed conerns oh how they felt America the country they love is turning into what they left.

Well here we are.

How ironic, we have conditioned into thinking Americans must worry about terrorists from foreign shores who want to destroy America, When the real problem was already here.
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:03 PM
 
Location: On the water.
17,454 posts, read 9,763,252 times
Reputation: 14659
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
Please. The Vietnam War had nothing to do with "Defending Our Freedom". It was a complete waste of life and time and US(once again)had no business being there. It was President Lyndon Johnson who turned it into full scale war. Google "The Gulf of Tonkin".

The loss of Vietnamese civilians, young American lives, and for what? So let's not pretend it had anything to do with our freedom.

That poster does plenty of barking himself.

Funny how you talk about freedom, yet you tell that poster to basically shut up. It used to be in the US(and even during the Vietnam War which divided this nation) that people could agree to disagree, there was a saying "I disagree with what your saying, but I will defend your right to say it".

The US is imploding on itself, years of propping up an economy like a house of cards, "leaders"( I use that word very loosely) who for the most part never put the needs of the American people or this country first. Having a majority of people in this country(not all) who don't pay attention, have become very self involved, have an arrogant and ignorant attitude(even after (9/11) that America is above having the issues that so many other countries have, well it isn't.

And you might want to try listening to Americans who weren't born here, who came from other countries due to living in a country that had a govt. that crushed their rights, where it was economically impossible to just get by, so they learned another language English, left their native country and some leaving friends and family behind, worked and studied and became US citizens.

I know quite a few, they're not happy the direction this country has been going, many expressed conerns oh how they felt America the country they love is turning into what they left.

Well here we are.

How ironic, we have conditioned into thinking Americans must worry about terrorists from foreign shores who want to destroy America, When the real problem was already here.
Yo seain ... Vietnam was a bad, bull****e war. But that doesn’t cover Astral’s comment - or your response. Serving in the military is a commitment to serving the nation and its citizens’ freedom and well-being. If / when leadership misapplies the military - you take it up with those leaders ... not with the troops who signed on to serve. Get it?

As to who is “barking”: you’ve been for months absolutely polluting these threads about the virus, accusing people you know little-to-nothing about of being selfishly self-absorbed, insensitive, callous, “I’ve-got-mine-so-screw-everybody-else”, louts and idiots ... left and right ... multiple times a day, same accusations, including at me (and I’ll match my civic service against yours any day) ... and sanctimoniously declaring yourself more understanding and wise and worldly. Give it a rest with the ‘War and Peace’ length diatribes. Have a drink of Irish whiskey. Take a walk. Play tiddly-winks. Move on.
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:25 PM
 
Location: So Ca
20,147 posts, read 17,920,903 times
Reputation: 17639
The city of Pasadena is warning against Mother’s Day gatherings after its public health department recently traced a cluster of at least five coronavirus cases to a birthday party.

The party was held after the city issued stay-at-home orders March 19 and was attended by a large number of extended family members and friends who did not wear face coverings or stay six feet apart, the city said in a news release.
“One person showed up to the party exhibiting symptoms and joking she may have the virus,” Lisa Derderian, spokeswoman for the city of Pasadena, said in an email. “The aftermath affected several others who became seriously ill because of one person’s negligent and selfish behavior.”

Through contact tracing, a Pasadena Public Health Department disease investigation team discovered more than five laboratory-confirmed coronavirus cases among attendees of the party “and many more ill individuals,” the city said. The team identified the woman as the index case, or the first patient in the outbreak identified with the infection, officials said.


https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ty-mothers-day
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:30 PM
 
Location: southern california
60,669 posts, read 78,851,340 times
Reputation: 54630
I hear that on media a lot
But I read the stats daily -80,000 in 2 months is not a flat line
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