Vote No On Prop 98 (Oakland, Orinda: apartment complex, rentals, mortgages)

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by SandyCo

And for anyone who is wondering why I don't just move out of state, I really love my job and the people I work with.

You think that makes you special? Welcome to the tough decision millions of people around the world have had to make in the face of economic realities. Do you think I want to leave SoCal where my entire life is? But reality is reality. Maybe we need housing price control so I can get a 4 bedroom house in a great neighborhood for, oh, $200k. That's the price I've decided is fair not I'm not going to let reality get in the way.

[SandyCo]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

Wow. You're getting a $500/mo+ city-imposed gift from your landlord. Rent control is no different from section 8, except the burden is 100% on the property owner instead of spread out among all tax payers, the property owner is forced to take it, and the benefit it given out without regard to the recipient's income level.

In this building, two-bedrooms go for about $1,350. It only has a car port with one space per unit, no central air or heat, and no elevator. Also, the water is turned off intermittently every so often without warning, I can hear my neighbors arguing loudly all day long (and they're the managers!), the "maintenance" mail box is always full when I call the office, etc. I know I'm paying well below market rates, but I still bregrudge my landlord every penny he collects from me.

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by SandyCo

In this building, two-bedrooms go for about $1,350. It only has a car port with one space per unit, no central air or heat, and no elevator. Also, the water is turned off intermittently every so often without warning, I can hear my neighbors arguing loudly all day long (and they're the managers!), the "maintenance" mail box is always full when I call the office, etc. I know I'm paying well below market rates, but I still bregrudge my landlord every penny he collects from me.

Would you still be for rent control if you didn't qualify because it only applied to low-income people?

[mommabear2]

Originally Posted by perek

Guess why? Cali, DC, MD, NJ, and NY have the highest cost some of living prices in the nation (DC, LA, NYC are the most expensive cities in the nation/world)! The market in LA certainly does NOT support the crazy high rent here, people are just forced to pay it. If you live in a place you shouldn't be forced out of it by crazy increases in rent every year, the rent increases are purely profit driven, much like oil prices. The landlords mortgage certainly wont go up, property taxes may increase, but not at some of the rates of rent increase seen in LA.

Rent control is not keeping the market prices down. You said it yourself that LA rents are crazy high. Why? L.A. has an extremely low vacancy rate... thanks to rent control (check out the vacancy rates in L.A., you'll find that it's often below 5%. There's no incentive to make a person move if they are getting below market rates... so they stay and often for a VERY long time. SandyCo is an example. I can offer more examples...

I have a SIL who has been in the same 1+1 rent controlled apt in Hollywood for 8 years (she pays 800/month - the landlord could get $1400-$1500 easy). In her building, she and her BF have been there the LEAST amount of time. So imagine that... an ENTIRE apartment building hasn't seen market prices in at least 8 years. Now, how does that NOT effect current market rates when so many units are being tied up? What about the landlord in my SIL place who has sat back and watched the rental market blow by him as inflation eats up the 3% a year he gets when the rental market has gone up by more than 5% average/yr in L.A. County? His "profit" easily turns into a operating loss with one major repair. Why do you think so many rent controlled units look like sh*t? The guy is lucky to break even.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by perek

Guess why? Cali, DC, MD, NJ, and NY have the highest cost some of living prices in the nation (DC, LA, NYC are the most expensive cities in the nation/world)!

I did a quick check of the top 10 cities with the highest rent and MD and NJ didn't make the cut... note, only half have Rent Control

New York City $2,400
San Francisco $1,573
Los Angeles $1,421
Orange County $1,384
San Jose $1,330
Boston $1,216
San Diego $1,213
Oakland $1,210
Washington, DC $1,160
Fort Lauderdale $1,104


Only one US city makes the top 10 for most expensive in the world and that is New York coming in at number 5. Los Angeles comes in at number 21...

Fascinating that Western Europe has the largest concentrations of expensive cities... enjoy!

Here's the link... City Mayors: World's most expensive cities in 2008 - Ranking

[katenik]

Originally Posted by mommabear2

Rent control is not keeping the market prices down. You said it yourself that LA rents are crazy high. Why? L.A. has an extremely low vacancy rate... thanks to rent control (check out the vacancy rates in L.A., you'll find that it's often below 5%. There's no incentive to make a person move if they are getting below market rates... so they stay and often for a VERY long time. SandyCo is an example. I can offer more examples...

I have a SIL who has been in the same 1+1 rent controlled apt in Hollywood for 8 years (she pays 800/month - the landlord could get $1400-$1500 easy). In her building, she and her BF have been there the LEAST amount of time. So imagine that... an ENTIRE apartment building hasn't seen market prices in at least 8 years. Now, how does that NOT effect current market rates when so many units are being tied up? What about the landlord in my SIL place who has sat back and watched the rental market blow by him as inflation eats up the 3% a year he gets when the rental market has gone up by more than 5% average/yr in L.A. County? His "profit" easily turns into a operating loss with one major repair. Why do you think so many rent controlled units look like sh*t? The guy is lucky to break even.

i know someone who has been in the same rent-controlled apartment for 22 years, currently paying under $800 for a 2/1. he has to fight tooth-and-nail for basic maintenance, and ends up doing a lot of it himself, but he refuses to move because of the cheap rent. the sad part is that he really can't afford to move now, because over the past 22 years he has made employment choices based upon what it cost him to live there, and his income has only kept pace with his artificially low rent, not the true cost of living in LA. now approaching retirement age, he'll probably stay there until he dies, because his social security payments won't afford him anything else unless he leaves the state. he did it to himself.

[perek]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I did a quick check of the top 10 cities with the highest rent and MD and NJ didn't make the cut... note, only half have Rent Control

New York City $2,400
San Francisco $1,573
Los Angeles $1,421
Orange County $1,384
San Jose $1,330
Boston $1,216
San Diego $1,213
Oakland $1,210
Washington, DC $1,160
Fort Lauderdale $1,104


Only one US city makes the top 10 for most expensive in the world and that is New York coming in at number 5. Los Angeles comes in at number 21...

Fascinating that Western Europe has the largest concentrations of expensive cities... enjoy!

Here's the link... City Mayors: World's most expensive cities in 2008 - Ranking

MD has some areas outside the DC metro which rival Los Angles for cost.

Also, isn't all cali, ny under rent control? I count 8/10 cities with rent control.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by perek

MD has some areas outside the DC metro which rival Los Angles for cost.

Also, isn't all cali, ny under rent control? I count 8/10 cities with rent control.

The State of California list the following cities as having Rent Control on their website:

Landlord/Tenant Book - California Department of Consumer Affairs

LIST OF CA CITIES WITH RENT CONTROL
Berkeley
Beverly Hills
Campbell
East Palo Alto
Fremont
Hayward
Los Angeles
Los Gatos
Oakland
Palm Springs
San Francisco
San Jose
Santa Monica
Thousand Oaks
West Hollywood

[SandyCo]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

Would you still be for rent control if you didn't qualify because it only applied to low-income people?

Yes, but there's already a program in place for low income people. It's called Section 8. We have a few Section 8 tenants in this building, in fact.

There is a moderate amount of turnover in this building, probably because the landlord is so difficult to deal with, we don't have a decent manager, and the maintenance people are a joke.

I do wonder now if any rent-controlled building I would try to move to might have the same issues. Most tenants under rent control don't move out unless they absolutely have to, for whatever the reason, so I'd simply be trading one bad situation for another, except that I'd be paying more for it.

[xyzxyz]

Originally Posted by SandyCo

Yes, but there's already a program in place for low income people. It's called Section 8. We have a few Section 8 tenants in this building, in fact.

There is a moderate amount of turnover in this building, probably because the landlord is so difficult to deal with, we don't have a decent manager, and the maintenance people are a joke.

I do wonder now if any rent-controlled building I would try to move to might have the same issues. Most tenants under rent control don't move out unless they absolutely have to, for whatever the reason, so I'd simply be trading one bad situation for another, except that I'd be paying more for it.

WOW! I started this thread and it is amazing all of the wonderful conversation. I am learning I am not the only one who feels the way I do.

I have lived in 7 places in this city in 15 years. I have desperately tried to find what I feel are adequate living conditions for the price of rent and you can't find it. You just can't find it. You can spend thousands of dollars trying to find just the right place, and you never will. You will either have a ruthless landlord, rude tenants, an apartment that is horrible or all the above.

In my work with trying to get people to Vote "NO" on Prop 98, I am learning more and more that many people don't find rent-controlled buildings pleasant places to live. For the most part, landlords don't care because they are angry they have restrictions placed on them in how much they can raise the rent.

However, they falsely blame rent-control on that. Landlords don't care one way or another really. True, they may use rent-control as an excuse, but do you honestly think landlords are going to care more if rent-control is abolished and they start jacking up rents 30% every year? Absolutely not. No matter what the case, once they get you to sign that lease, they run for the hills. They don't want to see you or hear from you unless it is a grave emergency. They want you to just send them their rent check on time every month and you can get screwed after that.

I am paying $2500 a month to live in a 75-year-old building that at first, looked quite charming and appealing. I am under rent-control. There is virtually no water pressure in the place at all, two apartments in the complex are constantly leaking, there has been extensive water damage everywhere and the place has the worst musty smell I have ever smelled. There is no air conditioning and the floors are so hot you can't even walk on them when the temps go about 85. We had to furnish most of our own appliances and the fridge that the landlord provided is on the verge of going out, and the landlord refuses to furnish a new one. Some tenants believe they are at liberty to make their own parking rules and trash the grounds by tossing furniture and trash wherever it is convenient.

I say all of this because would I want to put up with all this from a landlord who is under strict guidelines to raise my rent no more than 5% or from a landlord who will raise it to whatever they want so they can live comfortably in their Beverly Hills home and travel around the world four times a year?

You be the judge.