Miss LA more than I thought I would (Los Angeles, San Francisco: neighborhoods, living)

[CESpeed]

Originally Posted by sav858

LA ran out of room a long time ago so it has NO CHOICE but to become denser. Can't stop population growth unless you stop creating jobs. And people like you just can't handle that. You want your little idealized LA of the 1950's where every drove w/o traffic and lived in single family homes. Well those times are long gone and LA is only going to get denser and evolve into more of a real city. Get over it already and realize you just don't like cities.

There are ALWAYS choices. The cities in Santa Barbara county prohibit development because they understand overdevelopment will ruin the quality of life in Santa Barbara County. What part of I'm moving to Arkansas tells you that I don't know that I don't like cities? Little Rock is in Arkansas, you know. There is a reason I didn't choose Little Rock. Ya think?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

There are ALWAYS choices. The cities in Santa Barbara county prohibit development because they understand overdevelopment will ruin the quality of life in Santa Barbara County. What part of I'm moving to Arkansas tells you that I don't know that I don't like cities? Little Rock is in Arkansas, you know. There is a reason I didn't choose Little Rock. Ya think?

Yes and look how expensive Santa Barbara is and how it has an hour glass economy of lots of rich and poor and very little middle class. If SB did such a great job at protecting quality of life and preventing development then why don't you move there? is it possibly b/c you can't afford it like 95% of the population?

Growth isn't always a bad thing if it's done and managed right. LA is becoming denser and it can handle the growth as long as it provides the proper infrastructure.

So you recognize the fact that you don't like cities so why do you complain about LA so much as if its the city's fault you don't like it? You don't like cities so you don't like LA, it's pretty simple. At least admit the your preferences are the problem and not LA. Just b/c LA isn't what YOU want it to be doesn't mean it's a bad city and you need to constantly be so negative on it when other people appreciate the big city aspects of it. You got some huge chip and your shoulder and it's pretty pathetic......

[nickdahammer]

There's this fear of 'outsiders' that I find particularly ludicrous. Los Angeles would be NOTHING without the contributions of immigrants, in particular those from the East.

The city fathers/developers banked on them coming to LA to buy land, build businesses, fill the streetcars that took the 'transplants' to their new developments by the beaches, downtown and the mountains. The entertainment industry grew here because East Coast investors/filmmakers moved here, for instance.

More people = more density. Sprawl won't address the issue. Time to do what LA does best: adapt to change and find a way to make it work to our advantage.

[LAPTOP GAMER]

California in general sucks and I can't wait to leave, the taxes keep going up, LA unified school system sucks so bad they have to dumb down the classes so the illegal alien kids can keep up, the state government is ran by incompetent idiots, illegal aliens are a protected species here and have more rights than I do. California would be ok if you can afford in Malibu I guess, but unless you have a ridiculous amount of money it isn't fun.

[matt345]

Originally Posted by nickdahammer

Sprawl won't address the issue.

And like I've been saying, sprawl isn't even an option anymore for LA anyway. The only way LA is going to continue to sprawl is if they found a way flatten the San Gabriel Mountains. I don't know why so many native Angelenos have a hard time accepting the fact that dense development is LA's only option. It's truly a bizarre mindset for a city of this size. I don't think I've ever encountered another city of this size that seems to be so ashamed of how big it is. It's like people want to pretend that they live in a small town of 15,000, rather than a world city of 4 million.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by matt345

And like I've been saying, sprawl isn't even an option anymore for LA anyway. The only way LA is going to continue to sprawl is if they found a way flatten the San Gabriel Mountains. I don't know why so many native Angelenos have a hard time accepting the fact that dense development is LA's only option. It's truly a bizarre mindset for a city of this size. I don't think I've ever encountered another city of this size that seems to be so ashamed of how big it is. It's like people want to pretend that they live in a small town of 15,000, rather than a world city of 4 million.

you find that same mentality here in San Diego among some of the old time natives, I don't get it either. It's like no one wants these respective cities to evolve into truly world class places with density and public transit. You sure as hell don't find much of that mentality in SF or the Bay Area, maybe b/c SF had the density from the get go as opposed to LA and SD. They want their Omaha, NE lifestyle on the beach or something. LA could have been a less sprawling, traffic choked city if people had learn to accept the fact that it will always grow and become denser instead of continuing to build monotonous, mind numbing sprawl as far as the eye can see. And the thing is it's dense sprawl with small lots and large homes. I am all for density as long as it's planned and developed right with the proper infrastructure. Hopefully LA has learned from its past mistakes.....

[matt345]

Originally Posted by sav858

You sure as hell don't find much of that mentality in SF or the Bay Area, maybe b/c SF had the density from the get go as opposed to LA and SD.

Sometimes it seems as if San Francisco is the only California city that actually wants to be a city, and it's really a lot smaller than LA and SD in terms of population! The Bay Area is something special though.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by matt345

Sometimes it seems as if San Francisco is the only California city that actually wants to be a city, and it's really a lot smaller than LA and SD in terms of population! The Bay Area is something special though.

I grew up there, it's not as special as people like to think it is. But no doubt I love it there and it is wonderful in many respects and SF's urban qualities are unmatched on the west coast. If I could only combine Sf's urban fabric and San Diego's climate and beaches I might have myself my perfect city. But even in SF there are some really provincial attitudes and some old timers can't stand new skyscrapers being built there. They want it to have a flat, European type skyline to it and even enacted height restrictions back in the 70's and 80's b/c they didn't want it to be like NYC.

I think there are plenty of people that want to see SD and LA become more urban like me but there are still those old, grumpy do nothing NIMBY's that just don't want any change or progress. LA is very dynamic and some can't see to fathom that and want their Leave it to Beaver 1950's suburban life.

[CESpeed]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yes and look how expensive Santa Barbara is and how it has an hour glass economy of lots of rich and poor and very little middle class. If SB did such a great job at protecting quality of life and preventing development then why don't you move there? is it possibly b/c you can't afford it like 95% of the population?

Growth isn't always a bad thing if it's done and managed right. LA is becoming denser and it can handle the growth as long as it provides the proper infrastructure.

So you recognize the fact that you don't like cities so why do you complain about LA so much as if its the city's fault you don't like it? You don't like cities so you don't like LA, it's pretty simple. At least admit the your preferences are the problem and not LA. Just b/c LA isn't what YOU want it to be doesn't mean it's a bad city and you need to constantly be so negative on it when other people appreciate the big city aspects of it. You got some huge chip and your shoulder and it's pretty pathetic......

Talk about pathetic. You are a destroyer. I grew up here. And yes I loved LA exactly as it was. You have the advantage that greedy developer who also has no ties to anything or a heart to do your dirty work for you. And yes if certain laws pass in November I just may go back up to Santa Barbara instead of Arkansas.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by sav858

I grew up there, it's not as special as people like to think it is. But no doubt I love it there and it is wonderful in many respects and SF's urban qualities are unmatched on the west coast. If I could only combine Sf's urban fabric and San Diego's climate and beaches I might have myself my perfect city. But even in SF there are some really provincial attitudes and some old timers can't stand new skyscrapers being built there. They want it to have a flat, European type skyline to it and even enacted height restrictions back in the 70's and 80's b/c they didn't want it to be like NYC.

I think there are plenty of people that want to see SD and LA become more urban like me but there are still those old, grumpy do nothing NIMBY's that just don't want any change or progress. LA is very dynamic and some can't see to fathom that and want their Leave it to Beaver 1950's suburban life.

I'll bite.

Note I am originally from the Wash DC area; born and raised, then left for Calif 30 years ago.

My perceptions of SoCal (note I said perceptions, not reality) are indeed of the 'Leave it to Beaver' the Frankie Avalon/Annette Funacello beach movies, etc. mantra of ca. 1965.

Since what I described is not feasible; I live next door here in Arizona which in many regards (in the physical sense sans beaches) is reminiscent of SoCal of another era, shall we say.

Now for ironic: aside from the beastly summers, Bullhead City has quite a bit of the Old School LA vibe--------maybe because we have so many refugees from the latter place.