Driving Through Crosswalks Past Pedestrians (Los Angeles: house, construction, public schools)

[AnUnidentifiedMale]

Originally Posted by Sorcerer68

I'll have to say that 9 times out of 10 when I'm walking my dogs and it's happened to me in the L.A. area, it's someone in a massive S.U.V.

Oh, of course it is.

I was just in L.A. for a few days. The SUV-hatred and political correctness among the Hollywood/Silver Lake crowd has become as bad as what you find in San Francisco.

Regarding the stopping for pedestrians, it's mostly an L.A. phenomenon, even though it is a state law. Try stepping into a crosswalk in almost any other metro area in California and prepare for the drivers to not only whiz by you, but to also look at you like you're nuts.

[RiWrites]

It isn't just in LA. I almost had an accident with an idiot who was texting while driving. He ran the red light and lucky for him I managed to get out of his way. He didn't even slow down or stopped texting. Unless you are in Obamas' cabinet and we are about to be nuked by some foreign power, put the damn cell phones and blackberries down. You are not that important. But then people eat, look at maps, apply makeup and read while driving.

[calvin_rotten]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

I don't see where a pedestrian's time is less valuable than a motorist's and where pedestrians should hurry on their way for the benefit of a motorist. We all must expect to wait for each other sometimes. One thing that seems to be continually forgotten is that the streets are public and need to serve a host of situations -- not just car and driver. Whether motorist, pedestrian, bicyclist, farm-equipment operator or other, patience is key. Keep it friendly out there.

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that a pedestrian's time is less valuable. Nor am I suggesting that this is what other pedestrians should do. I was just describing how the traffic laws make me feel personally when I'm the pedestrian. But then again, I'm a bit overly self-conscious, so I always feel like I'm in the way of others. When I first got my license, I always used to go into right turns way too fast because I didn't want to slow down the car(s) behind me. Even nowadays I'll pull into the bicycle lane before decelerating so that the car behind me won't have to slow down. I also tend to drive a bit faster when there are cars directly behind me. And no matter how slow the car in front of me is going, I always try to keep at least 2 car-lengths between us so that the other driver won't feel rushed in any way.

However, another thing to consider is that pedestrians are much slower than vehicle traffic. A car going through an intersection (even making a left turn) is going to take much less time than a pedestrian walking across a crosswalk. Furthermore, if I'm crossing the street by myself, and there are 4 lanes of traffic waiting for me, each with an average of 2 cars, with 2 occupants per car, then I'm making 16 people wait on the account of a single person. Besides, if I run or jog across the crosswalk then I'm going to get to my destination faster too.

While one can make a strong case for the need for laws to be clear-cut--as VLWH noted--laws also need to grounded in a sense of pragmatism. People won't follow laws that are impractical and that defy common sense. Frankly, I think the safest, simplest, and most elegant solution is still a pedestrian separation structure (Pedestrian separation structure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). In Taiwan they're called "sky bridges." They're basically just pedestrian overpasses. This minimizes traffic delays at intersections for both drivers and pedestrians while greatly increasing safety. I've always wondered why we don't have them here in the U.S. Though I guess one reason might be the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prevents staircases from being the only access to these grade-separated crosswalks, making them more expensive to build here.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by James T

This nonsense has got to stop. How can so many people driving vehicles in Los Angeles not seem to understand that it's unlawful to drive through a crosswalk whilst a pedestrian is walking through it, and that it's in especially poor taste to take off from the opposite side of an intersection just so that your car will barely clear a pedestrian by the time you get to the other side.

And BTW, when making a right turn, PUT DOWN YOUR CELLPHONE A LOOK TO THE RIGHT FOR OPPOSING PEDESTRAINS BEFORE PROCEDING.

As a pedestrian, this is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves about drivers. Pedestrians have such a small window of opportunity to cross while drivers can (for the most part) turn on a red signal provided it's safe. What really irks me is that while I'm waiting for my signal, the driver starts his turn just when the walk signal appears!

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by RudyOD

I hate that too!!!

I'm not a perfect driver and am guilty of forgetting to look to check for pedestrians...though I always manage to check for OTHER oncoming vehicles. But what gets to me the most is when I'm waiting on a pedestrian to cross and the car in back of me starts beeping because i'm not going!!!

That can be an issue and I see your point. I've noticed that the car who is about to make the right hand turn is impatiently waiting for me to begin my cross but what many drivers don't realize is that our walk signal does not come until the opposite street has completed their left hand turns. It's really nerve wracking to have the car looking at me impatiently while I'm waiting for a signal and vehicle clearance before crossing. I've gotten hit by a car before and do not wish to repeat that experience. Also, what many drivers don't realize is many pedestrians are public transit users who often have been sitting on buses for several hours!

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by wall st kid

Good rule of thumb is to always make eye contact with the driver before you cross. Make SURE they see you. When i'm driving and stopped, i always make eye contact to peds to let them know, "go ahead, i see you"

I always try to do this and it has helped the situation somewhat.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by calvin_rotten

i know this is an old thread, but recently i've been wondering about a closely related issue. i think we can all agree that it's bad to cut off or run over pedestrians, and that you should always look for pedestrians on your right before making a right turn. but what about instances where pedestrians are not in any danger, where the law says "no," but common sense (and common practice) says "yes"?

in my area people are generally courteous to pedestrians, giving them the right of way and not cutting them off. however, if there is a pedestrian traversing the crosswalk away from you, and they've made it more than halfway across the intersection (i.e. they're clear of the lanes you're turning onto), then most people will make the right turn before the pedestrian is off the crosswalk. likewise, if a driver is trying to make a right turn and there is a pedestrian coming towards him from the opposite side of the street, most drivers will make the turn if the pedestrian has only just stepped onto the crosswalk (meaning they are still at least 10-15 seconds away from the section of crosswalk that the car will pass through). it's sort of like driving 5-10 mph above the speed limit or turning onto an outside lane. it may be against the law, but most people still do it. and as long as the driver isn't posing a threat to public safety, most police officers generally don't care.

i usually wait for pedestrians to get all the way across before making a right turn, but i have to admit i usually feel a bit uncomfortable (and silly) making all the cars behind me wait 30 seconds~1 minute when a less dogmatic person would just go since it's completely safe. similarly, when i'm walking across a crosswalk i usually run the last couple of feet if i notice that the car at the intersection i started from is waiting for me to reach the other side to make their right turn. so i would actually prefer if cars didn't wait for me to get all the way across and just turned once i'm safely out of the way.

what are other people's thoughts on the matter? do you always wait for the pedestrian to step back onto the sidewalk? is it really a matter of safety/courtesy in these situations? and what about left turns on busy intersections with very short left-turn signals? is it right to make the cars behind you wait an extra 4-5 minutes for the next green when you can easily turn left without endangering any pedestrians?

As a pedestrian, it makes me uneasy to see the driver turning before I made it safely onto the sidewalk. What would happen had I lost my step and tripped? I shudder to think of that and take care to step safely onto the sidewalk but it would be wise for the driver to ensure the pedestrian is safely onto the sidewalk to avoid hitting them if they have a misstep.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by ProgShred

I always stop for peds, but I get annoyed by two things. The peds who walk slow like they have a lump of crap sticking out of their butt. They seem to have this sense of entitlement that everyone has to stop and wait for them and they are gonna take their sweet ass time. The other thing is when I'm turning right and the car in front of me waits for the ped to completely cross the street to the other side, and the car in front wont move an inch until the ped steps up onto the curb on the other side, even though the ped is 4-6 lanes away by that time.

I think the pedestrian right of ways law has gotten out of hand here. In Nevada, pedestrians have more respect for traffic. Where ever I am, when I am walking, I try to cross the street quickly if I see cars waiting to turn and I never step in front of moving traffic. I understand the law, but both parties should respect each other. I've had people walk at a crawl pace step right in front of my moving vehicle where there isn't even a cross walk. That only happens to me in California. I've never had it happen anywhere else.

As a pedestrian, I try to hurry through the crosswalk in order to not impede traffic. There are days that I may walk slowly as I sometimes suffer cramps in my legs. There are many pedestrians who are elderly or have disabilities that prevent them from moving fast. As long as they are not impeding traffic, then drivers should show courtesy towards them.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by motoman

Pedestrians in LA seem to have this sense of entitlement, that everyone in a car should have to wait for them. Somehow if a pedestrian steps out in front of a car traveling at 30 mph and the car has to slam on their brakes to keep from killing the ped, it's the driver's fault? Just because you are walking doesn't mean you can ignore all common sense and common courtesy.

I love the patience argument. We just have to be patient, and tolerate those that have nowhere to go and no consideration for the lines of cars waiting for them to cross the street as they stop to answer their phone or tie their shoes. The guy that was in the middle of the street the other day, as the light turned green for cars to go, he was being safe and considerate to whom?

The point of it all is that peds and drivers alike have an EQUAL responsibility to pay attention, be safe, use common sense, and get the hell out of the way so we can all spend at least a few minutes less per day sitting in unnecessary traffic.

I agree. Pedestrians do have a responsibility for their own safety and to not impede traffic. I am totally against jaywalking as that can unecessarily puts the pedestrians life in jeopardy because vehicles are not expecting the pedestrian to cross.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

So the assumption is that if you're on foot instead of behind the wheel of a car you're inconsiderate and have nowhere to go? What kind of argument is that?

I still ask: why do pedestrians have to scurry on their way to keep motorists from waiting an extra second or two? When was the last time a car SPEED UP for the sake of a pedestrian? We all have to SHARE the PUBLIC spaces known as city streets. NO ONE has any more right than another -- although CAR drivers by far and away seem to think they OWN the streets and that everyone else should hurry up and get out of the way. Patience people! If you don't want to wait, don't live in the city! Now there's a thought.

I agree totally. Don't assume that pedestrians don't have anywhere to go as many rely on public transportation, which takes them longer to get from A to B than the average motorist's commute. My commute on average takes 2.5-3 hours EACH way so it irks me to no end when a driver impatiently cuts me off when I cross at a designated crosswalk.