Rental late fees - $70 (apartment, how much, lawyers)

[nerosfriend]

My apt. manager asked me if I would switch from paying my rent on the 15th to the 1st - I obliged and paid half rent on the 15th and would resume full payments on the 1st. They usually take about two weeks to cash the checks - I made an accounting error and bounced the 15th check- my bad - so I paid the full rent due on the 1st and the next day the half rent plus the $70 late fee and $25 bounced check fee.

Later the manager told me that I would need to pay an additional late fee because the half months rent was turned in after the subsequent rent was due (15 days later)

my objection to this is that I was only informed of the bounced check a couple of days before the 1st and the time between the rent being due was only 15 days. I understand that the rent was late and gladly paid the late/bounced check fee immediately- yet i feel that paying a second late fee is unjustified because of the unique nature of the situation.

I would normally just pay and forget about it but this seems pretty ridiculous- just curious if there is any legal justification that I may present to them in my defense.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Are you saying that you normaly pay the full amount of rent on the 15th and now rent is due on the 1st of the month. You are also saying that they normally deposit the checks 2 weeks after you pay them giving you a 2 week float on your money. (Good for you.) Sounds as though you expected this float to work forever. Did they accidently post your check earlier than the two weeks you are accustomed to? So normally you would give them a check for the entire months rent on the 15th of the month. Were you able to honor the check you gave them, or were you counting on the float each month? Now with your rent payment date switched to the 1st of the month you gave them a check on the 15th to pay for the half month's rent and another on the 1st to cover the next month. I am thinking that you had plenty of money to pay for one months rent on the 1st, but not a month and a half's rent. I am thinking that you gave them the check on the 15th hoping that they would not cash it until the 1st. I am thinking that on the 1st you paid for the next months rent but because of past situations where they did not post your check for a couple weeks you felt you were in the clear. How am I doing so far? I am also thinking that you have a rental agreement that you signed that tells you about the fees you will pay if a check bounces. I will give you some slack on that though, as most people seem to sign and not read the rental agreement before they sign it.

Here is your defense. Find a copy of your rental agreement and read it over and over. Look for anything having to do with late fees. Also look for anything on when the rent is due. Many will say in the agreement that the rent is due on the 1st of the month and is late after the 1st. Many will give you 3 days to pay before they send a notice to pay or quit. Find out if your rental agreement states what day you can pay the rent. If you signed a document stating that rent is due on the 15th, did they have you amend the document or sign a new document stating that rent is due on the 1st of the month? I wish you well in your fight for what you believe to be right. The management company also will be fighting for what they believe is right.

Another tact you may use works well if they have a lot of vacant units. Negotiate with them. They just changed the terms of the lease. You have a strong position that could be used in this negotiation. Chances are they won't want to lose people that are currently renting.

[Tinkerbell916]

Hey dont feel too bad, I paid a $100 late fee today! My apt's charge $100 late fees now since Jan. 1st this year. I just wondering but is this LEGAL??!

[Beth56]

Personally, I think what you have already paid in late fees and NSF fees is sufficient to cover the landlord's losses. I also feel your late fee is a little high. $50 seems more reasonable. Here is some information which may be of help to you. The following information was taken from:

dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/catenant


Late fees must be reasonably related to the costs that your landlord faces as a result of your rent payment being late. A properly set late fee is legally valid. However, a late fee that is so high that it amounts to a penalty is not legally valid.


Here is another article on the subject:

http://www.caltenantlaw.com/LateFees.htm

[Paula Lynn]

I charge $50.00 late fee - 98% of the residents pay by the 3rd, which is the grace period. If they've been with me for a while and have a good payment history, I usually just waive it if they're a few days late.

In California, the late fee cannot exceed 6% of your rent.

[bradd]

Yup. I think Paula may be right. California law puts a limit on what can be charged (and it is a percentage of the MONTHLY rate). So look into it. He is limited on what he can ask for there.Even if you pay half now and half later, etc.

Should be online...also, if you are in LA, they have their own rental rules which are ven more restrictive. Very pro tenant. So if you are in the city of LA, technically,check that out too (rent stabilization/LA would be key words for google).

Personally, I dont charge any late fees, if it is only occassionally late (but it is on the contract, 50 bucks, I think). I am happy to have my tenants pay, and Im stoked they are they. So i treat them like customers. But that's just me.

[Drusha]

Paula's actually wrong. Late fees are illegal. What you're being charged with is a nice way for a landlord to circumvent the law because they know two things:

1) You don't want to Moderator cut: inappropriate language off your landlord, because he/she might take their sweet time fixing that broken thingamagig in your apartment. And be extremely difficult to deal with from then on.

2) They know YOU don't know the LAW.

California Tenant Law - Free legal advice for California renters' rights

There's a great book called California Tenant Law, written by California Lawyers. You can find it on Amazon.com. You have to be precise in your language, and UNEMOTIONAL in your dealings with your landlord when you write to them. But it's important to know the law. I know as I'm on both sides of the coin. I don't charge late fees, but I do send notice to quit or pay.

When I was a tenant and late with my rent, I would figure out what the damages were (it's in the Civil Code 3302) and give them that. On my $1500 apartment, it worked out to about $3.00 for the week. So I got a cashiers check for $1505 and gave them that along with my letter. It was uncomfortable at first, but no landlord wants to lose in court and have to pay you.

Also, Landlords know (as I do) that the lease is intimidating. You think that just because it's in the lease makes it legal. Not so.

Remember that the lease is usually a boilerplate lease from the Landlord (California Apartment Owners Association or the AOA) which doesn't mean the lease is legal either. It's just that you DON'T KNOW THE LAW and by not knowing, or thinking that your $50 spares you from Moderator cut: inappropriate language your landlord, (hey, maybe your money isn't worth the hassle) it's just money in their pocket. And if you have multiple properties, those illegal fees can add up quite nicely.

** oh, and I have to add this otherwise I may get sued for this nice bit of info ** I'm not a lawyer, nor am I representing myself as one, if you need legal advice consult a lawyer. Information contained in this post is for educational and informational purposes only *** (*** lawyers, tsk)

[Drusha]

Originally Posted by Beth56

Personally, I think what you have already paid in late fees and NSF fees is sufficient to cover the landlord's losses. I also feel your late fee is a little high. $50 seems more reasonable. Here is some information which may be of help to you. The following information was taken from:

dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/catenant


Late fees must be reasonably related to the costs that your landlord faces as a result of your rent payment being late. A properly set late fee is legally valid. However, a late fee that is so high that it amounts to a penalty is not legally valid.

What you have to remember is the wording in this publication. "Properly set late fee is known as liquidated damages and there's a provision for it in the California Civil Code 3302. Basically it's 1/3650 of the monthly rent per day. On $1000 rent, that's .27 cents per day.

A late fee charging $50 or $100 is a penalty and as the wording says, "not legally valid"

So, again, late fees are illegal. Liquidated damages as a percentage of the agreement are not. Figure out the damages and help explain the law to your landlord. Just do it nicely.

[Paula Lynn]

Drusha,

If you take a tenant to court for an eviction, you cannot add in the late fees, but 6% is legal.

[Drusha]

Just because it's in your lease doesn't mean it's legal. The liquidated damages provisions allows for the landlord to get some $$ for the tenant being late, but it's unclear, were you harmed by the tenant being late? how much actual damage was done?-- the reason that you think you can charge a late fee is because you don't know the law. I'm referring to Civil Code section 1671 which sets limitations on what can be in a contract.

Read more on late fees in on Orozco v. Casimiro (2004) 121 Cal.App.4th Supp. 7.

Basically, Paula, you're skirting the law because you know that most tenants won't fight you over $20 or whatever the amount is. And what you have to know as a landlord is that you're EXPECTED to know the law better than your tenants. So, if a tenant ever decides to just pay you your liquidated damages as provided for by law, you might find yourself just accepting the $1 or $5 (for however late they were) because it's easier than suing your tenant (and less expensive), primarily because you would lose if the tenant kept good records.

It works both ways.