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Old 10-27-2010, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
49,539 posts, read 41,487,763 times
Reputation: 21201

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Snopes is a left-leaning site. Don't believe everything you read on there. If you go by actual experience (talk to those who lived in the '40s and '50s) you will realize that schools were much safer back then. Obviously, things like drug abuse, pregnancy, assaults, rape, etc is more common at schools now than in the '40s and '50s.



When I mentioned guns (and knives) on campus, I was referring to mainly the 1990s and later.
The fact remains that schools (and society in general) were much safer then than they are now.
I graduated from school in So CA in the 50s. Rarely did anyone drink, maybe in our senior year a beer here and there, most girls graduated from high school as virgins (I said most) teen pregnancy was so uncommon when it happened it was the talk of town, the biggest fights you ever saw were a couple of guys punching maybe 1 hit before the school VP broke it up. Rape made the papers, pot was only used by the lowest of the low and kids had fun doing almost nothing compared to now.

Sure, there were a few gangs (in the really bad parts of Los Angeles) and there were some areas of town you wouldn't go to at night, but yes, it was a much safer time. "Happy Days" was pretty much the way it was.

Yes, Snopes is very much a left wing organization.

Nita
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Earth
11,979 posts, read 13,304,977 times
Reputation: 4100
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I graduated from school in So CA in the 50s. Rarely did anyone drink, maybe in our senior year a beer here and there, most girls graduated from high school as virgins (I said most)
Goes along with what my mom said. And considering most girls got married right after high school, it makes sense.
It was very taboo for young girls to drink back then, I know that. With the guys it was different according to what I've been told and have read. I do sense there may have been some cultural differences, native Californian "anglo" whites were probably different than Latinos, blacks, Okies, or even Eastern transplant whites who were grounded in the harder drinking and rougher ways of the eastern and midwestern cities.

Quote:
teen pregnancy was so uncommon when it happened it was the talk of town
It was the "talk of the town" indeed, but it did happen - and led invariably to marriage. Which led to the big wave of divorces in the '60s and '70s. Although I get the impression that pregnancy amongst very young teens was very, very rare...


Quote:
the biggest fights you ever saw were a couple of guys punching maybe 1 hit before the school VP broke it up.
True - but perhaps because so many troublemakers dropped out of school at the time, there was no reason for them to be in school, and that made for a more peaceful environment. Back then one could support oneself without a high school diploma. A better economy makes all the difference. There was also the draft....and school administration having more disciplinary tools available than today....and stronger families....etc. etc.

Quote:
Rape made the papers
Rape was usually not reported, especially because there were no "rape shield" laws and the usual view was that rape victims were asking for it. There were judges who'd throw out rape charges on the basis of what the victim was wearing (there was a judge in Pasadena who was infamous for letting off defendants in rape trials if he thought their victims were scantily dressed or promiscuous as late as the 1980s!)

Law enforcement sources generally agree there was more rape 50-60 years ago than today because of increased reporting and women today being more likely to fight back than those of half a century ago.

What got reported back then WAS a big story. However, rapes of Latinas, Asians, and black women didn't get in the paper even if reported to the police, or rapes of poor white women most likely.

Quote:
pot was only used by the lowest of the low
I wouldn't call Robert Mitchum "the lowest of the low"
But yes, it was seen as an "outlaw" thing, for musicians, some actors, artists, etc. and it wasn't accessible to the average high school student. John Gilmore (who's written a number of books about L.A. history as well as growing up in that era) was certainly far from typical.

No stories from relatives about this, but I have talked to people from that era about this. Rare outside of certain circles.

Quote:
Sure, there were a few gangs (in the really bad parts of Los Angeles) and there were some areas of town you wouldn't go to at night, but yes, it was a much safer time.
James Ellroy wrote in "My Dark Places" that El Monte had the highest crime rate in 1950s L.A. County and was considered the worst of the worst, he also added that El Monte of back then was practically "Leave It To Beaver" back then compared to El Monte today.

No one's disputing the '50s were safer than today. The gangs of back then were very mild compared to those of the last 30 years, or even the last 40 years....

Quote:
"Happy Days" was pretty much the way it was.
One of my Jr. High school teachers was very fond of pointing out inaccuracies in "Happy Days" to all of us kids who were fans of it (and pretty much every kid in America was a fan of that show in the mid-'70s)

Quote:
Yes, Snopes is very much a left wing organization.
Reality leans left?
If you read the Snopes article, it debunked the list but said it was one person's opinion ; the list first surfaced as part of an op-ed piece that was purely presented as opinion. That list has been cited by both liberals and conservatives so this is not a left vs. right issue. I don't think anyone would deny that the 1940s were safer than today, other than the Sleepy Lagoon unrest (the US Armed Forces made L.A. off limits to military personnel as unsafe when that was going on and servicemen stationed in L.A. County had to stay on base during and immediately after those riots).
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:08 PM
 
2,692 posts, read 2,783,787 times
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I would say snopes leans to the left, yes. They tend to err on the side of government intervention and authoritarian scare tactics.

Some of you think the old days were Leave it to Beaver, others of you think it isn't so different from today. I guess it depends on individual experience. But looking at the responses on this thread - especially earlier - and older people I've talked to, it was more like Leave it to Beaver than anything.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
18,380 posts, read 16,035,723 times
Reputation: 4542
Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled la native View Post
I would say snopes leans to the left, yes. They tend to err on the side of government intervention and authoritarian scare tactics.

Some of you think the old days were Leave it to Beaver, others of you think it isn't so different from today. I guess it depends on individual experience. But looking at the responses on this thread - especially earlier - and older people I've talked to, it was more like Leave it to Beaver than anything.
Yes, I agree.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:56 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,587 posts, read 20,162,906 times
Reputation: 16110
If Leave it to Beaver truly mirrored real life as it was back then, here's what the character descriptions might look like:

Ward Cleaver: Alcoholic, workaholic, beats his sons with a belt. Bones his secretary on the side. His country club won't allow minorities or Jews to be members. The neighborhood where he bought his home is deed-restricted to white Anglo-Saxon protestant homeowners only. Drives drunk.

June Cleaver: Pops prescription Nembutal (see Mother's Little Helper by the Rolling Stones), and has an unlimited refills script for amphetamine-based diet pills. Her woman's club membership restrictions mirror her husband's country club. Drives high.

Wally Cleaver: Pretends to like girls because of what he faces from family, friends, church and community if he were to be outed.

Beaver Cleaver: As the baby of the family, he's spoiled rotten. Wally resents him and makes his life as miserable as he can. Beaver has been regularly sexually abused by his pastor and little league coach since he was 5, but is afraid to say anything lest his abusers carry out their threats of killing his parents.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,362 posts, read 55,166,325 times
Reputation: 16359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
If Leave it to Beaver truly mirrored real life as it was back then, here's what the character descriptions might look like:

Ward Cleaver: Alcoholic, workaholic, beats his sons with a belt. Bones his secretary on the side. His country club won't allow minorities or Jews to be members. The neighborhood where he bought his home is deed-restricted to white Anglo-Saxon protestant homeowners only. Drives drunk.

June Cleaver: Pops prescription Nembutal (see Mother's Little Helper by the Rolling Stones), and has an unlimited refills script for amphetamine-based diet pills. Her woman's club membership restrictions mirror her husband's country club. Drives high.

Wally Cleaver: Pretends to like girls because of what he faces from family, friends, church and community if he were to be outed.

Beaver Cleaver: As the baby of the family, he's spoiled rotten. Wally resents him and makes his life as miserable as he can. Beaver has been regularly sexually abused by his pastor and little league coach since he was 5, but is afraid to say anything lest his abusers carry out their threats of killing his parents.
A masterpiece post.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:18 PM
 
2,692 posts, read 2,783,787 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
If Leave it to Beaver truly mirrored real life as it was back then, here's what the character descriptions might look like:

Ward Cleaver: Alcoholic, workaholic, beats his sons with a belt. Bones his secretary on the side. His country club won't allow minorities or Jews to be members. The neighborhood where he bought his home is deed-restricted to white Anglo-Saxon protestant homeowners only. Drives drunk.

June Cleaver: Pops prescription Nembutal (see Mother's Little Helper by the Rolling Stones), and has an unlimited refills script for amphetamine-based diet pills. Her woman's club membership restrictions mirror her husband's country club. Drives high.

Wally Cleaver: Pretends to like girls because of what he faces from family, friends, church and community if he were to be outed.

Beaver Cleaver: As the baby of the family, he's spoiled rotten. Wally resents him and makes his life as miserable as he can. Beaver has been regularly sexually abused by his pastor and little league coach since he was 5, but is afraid to say anything lest his abusers carry out their threats of killing his parents.
Sure that was probably a fair number of families. And there were others where the father was upstanding, hard working, devoted to wife and kids, taught good values. The wife was happy and nurturing to her children. The kids had fun playing outside, had good schools teachers who cared and fun friends, went on to college and got good jobs and repeated the cycle. And probably most families were somewhat in between, but leaning toward the latter.

TODAY, however, it's impossible for families like the stellar example to exist! The streets are no longer safe for kids to play, school and media is filled with bad influence even if the parents are okay, college is overcrowded and expensive, and there are no jobs - for parents or kids! So they turn into welfare state.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Coachella Valley, California
15,225 posts, read 25,214,012 times
Reputation: 12385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
If Leave it to Beaver truly mirrored real life as it was back then, here's what the character descriptions might look like:

Ward Cleaver: Alcoholic, workaholic, beats his sons with a belt. Bones his secretary on the side. His country club won't allow minorities or Jews to be members. The neighborhood where he bought his home is deed-restricted to white Anglo-Saxon protestant homeowners only. Drives drunk.

June Cleaver: Pops prescription Nembutal (see Mother's Little Helper by the Rolling Stones), and has an unlimited refills script for amphetamine-based diet pills. Her woman's club membership restrictions mirror her husband's country club. Drives high.

Wally Cleaver: Pretends to like girls because of what he faces from family, friends, church and community if he were to be outed.

Beaver Cleaver: As the baby of the family, he's spoiled rotten. Wally resents him and makes his life as miserable as he can. Beaver has been regularly sexually abused by his pastor and little league coach since he was 5, but is afraid to say anything lest his abusers carry out their threats of killing his parents.
This is CLASSIC!!!!!
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
749 posts, read 985,541 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled la native View Post
Sure that was probably a fair number of families. And there were others where the father was upstanding, hard working, devoted to wife and kids, taught good values. The wife was happy and nurturing to her children. The kids had fun playing outside, had good schools teachers who cared and fun friends, went on to college and got good jobs and repeated the cycle. And probably most families were somewhat in between, but leaning toward the latter.

TODAY, however, it's impossible for families like the stellar example to exist! The streets are no longer safe for kids to play, school and media is filled with bad influence even if the parents are okay, college is overcrowded and expensive, and there are no jobs - for parents or kids! So they turn into welfare state.
I'll have to agree with Fontucky's depiction not your idealized version of the past. Those "happy" June Cleaver wives had no choice but to clean the house and tend to the kids. That was just the professional class of women.

The working class (Anglo) gals had it even worse...they were stuck in crappy jobs with no chance for a professional job. And of course, the entire non-anglo segment of 1950's society (be it black, latino, or asian) were another step down the ladder from working class whites.

Also, I THOUGHT you were for personal freedom....like smoking grass. I don't imagine Ward Cleaver would be very happy if he found the Beaver with a Bong in hand. To say nothing of what law enforcement would do....
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:10 PM
 
2,692 posts, read 2,783,787 times
Reputation: 1504
Hey, at least there WERE jobs back then!
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