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Old 06-21-2010, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
787 posts, read 1,037,211 times
Reputation: 350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post

Anyway the entire movement to take back what is theirs is a joke. We paid Mexico a lot of money for this land after the war with Mexico. It is our land and belongs to the USA and its legal Citizens. All others can stay home.

Well...this is probably no place to debate the merits of the U.S.-Mexican war but let me quote Ulysses Grant on his view of that war:

"For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as ONE OF THE MOST UNJUST ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the BAD EXAMPLE of European monarhchies, in not considering justice in their desrie to acquire additional terriroty."

Again, I am not suggesting the U.S. give back land to Mexico but the truth is we stole that land.....no matter how you want to sugar coat it.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
787 posts, read 1,037,211 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Why is it racist when someone is against those that break the law? Never understood that. Our borders should be closed to all that can not enter legally. The Federal Government is not doing its part. It is a Federal law to protect our borders and little is done. Arizona passed a law to protect them and people look down on them. It is an insult to those that come here with papers when so many others enter the country as criminals. Yes it is a criminal act to enter this Nation with out papers.

It is not racist to ask for papers. Ever tried to get a job? One of the things that they want to know is can you work here legally. Do you have the right to work here in this Nation? Do you think that is a Racist thing to ask someone? I can't hire someone that can not work in the United States.

Anyway the entire movement to take back what is theirs is a joke. We paid Mexico a lot of money for this land after the war with Mexico. It is our land and belongs to the USA and its legal Citizens. All others can stay home.
On the larger point:

No, it is NOT racist to ask someone for papers to ensure they have legal status to work here. We all want secure borders....but how about starting the debate from a rational point of view based in facts, not fiction.

By contrast, the post by sagerzoo (which revived this nearly 6-month old thread) dabbled in hysteria and paranoia to such a degree that to call her a racist is a very reasonable charge. I refrained from calling her a racist but after re-reading her post she exhibits a high degree of xenophobia at best.

The suggestion that there is a widespread movement to take back the southwest U.S. and make it part of Mexico is hyperbole.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 3,373,546 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by PugMom17 View Post
Yes, Sagerzoo, your hispanic-American friends are most likely "racist too." I'm 1/2 Mexican-American. My family has been here in California and Arizona since before the U.S. claimed the land as part of the U.S. My cousin who is all Mexican-American is a super hater of anyone from Mexico. She is horribly prejudiced against Mexicans and many Mexican-Americans whose families have been here a long time are very resentful of Mexicans/illegals coming here and taking their "jobs." I would LOVE to see my cousin spend two hours picking crops in Oxnard like the illegals do, let alone taking it on as a job. She couldn't and wouldn't. The illegals do a lot of work that legal americans no matter what their nationality, wouldn't do. Have you ever seen the movie "A Day Without A Mexican?" In the movie, the whole state of California just about shuts down when the Mexicans disappear and stop working. We need to rethink our attitudes about the hard work that illegals do in our country. Most Americans would never do the back-breaking work that illegals do for us everyday. I'm not saying it's right that they come here illegally, but I'm saying that they are necessary to our economy. Remember, the ones who work above the table and pay taxes, don't get a cent back at tax time.
You present the obvious and why California has a love-hate affair with the Mexican border. Those who are in the country illegally need to get registered for citizenship. In the meantime, the border must be secured ASAP. The issue is dividing Americans and that can bring out racism on both sides. There is no doubt that some faculty of local universities and their student followers are pro-'La Raza' out of historic resentment that California was part of Spain and Mexico. These intelligentsia hardly represent the Mexican-American community in Los Angeles. And there is no Latino call to arms unlike the radical militia types are voicing [even people like Palin use gun language]. Both groups on the extreme ends are probably harmless but people who seek guns to solve the problem need to be kept under close scrutiny.

Everyone seems to agree that the border needs to be closed for security risks and uncontrollable migration.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,985 posts, read 16,209,342 times
Reputation: 16915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
I knew that because I'm f'in old and I've been around. But, to answer your question:

Yes. Fresno, Sanger, Centerville, Bakersfield, Selma, Clovis, Reedley, Minkler and Springville.
How old?

Believe it or not, Fontucky, I'm quite familiar with the central valley, having spent my last several years in law enforcement working narcotics in Bakersfield. My wife, at the time, had a large, extended family in Tulare which we visited and stayed in often. They were large ranch owners, not just in Tulare but in Tipton, Lindsay, Dinuba, Reedley and probably some other small areas. Their farmworkers came back to them year after year and their foremen, also Latino, were absolutely invaluable.

It's interesting, the argument about doing work Anglos won't do because where we are now, the Anglos do a lot of it, especially yard work and landscaping, building, painting, carpet laying and cleaning, delivery, hauling, et al.

California, and perhaps the SW in general, is quite different than the midwest, east, including New England, and deep south and it has issues that other parts of the country don't.

For whatever it's worth, what a lot of us "transplants" and former Califoreigners really miss is the variety of food, especially good Mexican food and Chinese dim sum or take-out doesn't exist.. My wife and I took a day-trip yesterday to explore some more of the Ozarks. We ended up in Fayetteville, AR where, about 35 years ago, my wife taught birthing classes three days a week at the Univ. of AR. We were getting hungry and while driving around, stumbled upon a Mexican restaurant. The food was delicious. As it turns out, the owner owns a restaurant in Los Angeles near the airport he started years ago and moved here to the boonies nine years ago to start this one. You wouldn't believe the prices, either -- great Margaritas for $2.99!

This thread has been interesting and instructive reading.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,985 posts, read 16,209,342 times
Reputation: 16915
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
You present the obvious and why California has a love-hate affair with the Mexican border. Those who are in the country illegally need to get registered for citizenship. In the meantime, the border must be secured ASAP. The issue is dividing Americans and that can bring out racism on both sides. There is no doubt that some faculty of local universities and their student followers are pro-'La Raza' out of historic resentment that California was part of Spain and Mexico. These intelligentsia hardly represent the Mexican-American community in Los Angeles. And there is no Latino call to arms unlike the radical militia types are voicing [even people like Palin use gun language]. Both groups on the extreme ends are probably harmless but people who seek guns to solve the problem need to be kept under close scrutiny.

Everyone seems to agree that the border needs to be closed for security risks and uncontrollable migration.
Yup! Yes to securing the borders and as for the rest, colleges and universities have almost always been hotbeds of "revolution," mostly for black and white students. Now it's someone else's turn. The good news is that very few of any movement's radical ideas to overthrow society as we know it get a real toehold or survive for very long. Even the radicalism of the 60s and 70s faded into history but for a few graybeards in tie-dye and sandals who linger on the fringes.

California and the southwest have a different and unique population mix from other places. It's no wonder some find that unsettling.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,587 posts, read 20,178,733 times
Reputation: 16111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
How old?
55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Believe it or not, Fontucky, I'm quite familiar with the central valley
I believe you, I believe you... but... why would I not believe that?
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,985 posts, read 16,209,342 times
Reputation: 16915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
55

I believe you, I believe you... but... why would I not believe that?
Dang, you're gettin' along in years too.

As for the rest, dunno. Just seemed like a possibility. A huge swath of the population has no idea what lies north of the Grapevine or south of Sacratomato.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 3,373,546 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Yup! Yes to securing the borders and as for the rest, colleges and universities have almost always been hotbeds of "revolution," mostly for black and white students. Now it's someone else's turn. The good news is that very few of any movement's radical ideas to overthrow society as we know it get a real toehold or survive for very long. Even the radicalism of the 60s and 70s faded into history but for a few graybeards in tie-dye and sandals who linger on the fringes.

California and the southwest have a different and unique population mix from other places. It's no wonder some find that unsettling.
Curmudgeon, did you work for the state during the time governor Reagan sent in helicopters to spray tear gas on protesters in Berkeley? From reports it appears the entire city was nearly shut down by students radicals who wanted the Vietnam war to end. Berkeley has had violent demonstrations over the years including Black Panthers and radical student groups. Does anyone remember Patricia Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army? Those were the days when California was reeling from radical anti-government organizations.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,985 posts, read 16,209,342 times
Reputation: 16915
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Curmudgeon, did you work for the state during the time governor Reagan sent in helicopters to spray tear gas on protesters in Berkeley? From reports it appears the entire city was nearly shut down by students radicals who wanted the Vietnam war to end. Berkeley has had violent demonstrations over the years including Black Panthers and radical student groups. Does anyone remember Patricia Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army? Those were the days when California was reeling from radical anti-government organizations.
I remember all of that. I returned from SE Asia in 1969 and shortly thereafter went back on active duty with the California National Guard. In 1973 I was Reagan's military escort and commanded the military security detail during a major military ceremony/event in Los Alamitos. He was very friendly and quite the people person.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,757 posts, read 10,798,458 times
Reputation: 6088
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Curmudgeon, did you work for the state during the time governor Reagan sent in helicopters to spray tear gas on protesters in Berkeley? From reports it appears the entire city was nearly shut down by students radicals who wanted the Vietnam war to end. Berkeley has had violent demonstrations over the years including Black Panthers and radical student groups. Does anyone remember Patricia Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army? Those were the days when California was reeling from radical anti-government organizations.
Hearst is a familiar name in Berkeley. The Hearst Memorial Building at Cal and Hearst st. in Berkeley are named after her great-grandfather.
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