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Location: one should never be where one does not belong
6,876 posts, read 4,207,398 times
Reputation: 7093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfside__
its really too early to say if there will only be onle ONE or TWO teams there, but from now I believe there will be TWO teams, and I think LA holds the market for TWO teams, one for EAST LA/OC/Inland empire, and one that supports downtown LA. Who knows what will happen, I will support two teams, why not? it's the 2nd largest city in the United States! new york has two teams (giants,jets) both in new jersey, but they have the market! I'd love to see the LA bengals downtown and the LA vikings in OC/east la/inland empire area. Only time will tell, but it will do GREAT if done right!
I'm guessing the rest of your prediction is as error filled as your theory of the LA Vikings happening considering the Minneapolis Vikings Stadium was approved a month ago. Perhaps you could start small with an indoor Football League team before trying to land a big fish.
I'm guessing the rest of your prediction is as error filled as your theory of the LA Vikings happening considering the Minneapolis Vikings Stadium was approved a month ago. Perhaps you could start small with an indoor Football League team before trying to land a big fish.
Congratulations on your fish. You bailed your billionaire owner out of a tight spot.
After two hours of debating public funding for professional sports, the city council voted 7-6 to support dedicating a series of local taxes to a new Vikings stadium at the site of the Metrodome.
The decision all but ensures construction of a $975 million stadium in downtown Minneapolis starting next spring, and it ends more than a year of negotiations with lawmakers over the most high-profile public expenditure in recent city history.
Kind of cool how $348 million of that comes from electronic gaming taxes. Now we know how any municipality can sweeten a deal to build a new stadium. NFL in Vegas, anybody? Casinos in L.A.?
Location: one should never be where one does not belong
6,876 posts, read 4,207,398 times
Reputation: 7093
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod
Kind of cool how $348 million of that comes from electronic gaming taxes. Now we know how any municipality can sweeten a deal to build a new stadium. NFL in Vegas, anybody? Casinos in L.A.?
you won't even need a building, just hand these out inside the airport terminal as people get off their planes...
I'm hoping either the Rams return or we get expansion. I like San Diego and would like an NFL rivalry with them.
I just want a team here finally.
agreed, me being a 49ers fan, i would want the Rams to return to L.A. so they can resurrect the 49ers-Rams rivalry, but god i pray and hope the Raiders never return to L.A.
and the jaguars aren't going anywhere in the short term, either. they're also locked into a long-term stadium lease with major financial penalties if the team tries to bolt town early. if it weren't for that lease, the jaguars would be a prime relocation candidate.
major league pro sports franchises do not relocate in this day and age due to attendance issues. it only happens nowadays due to stadium issues (i.e. unhappiness with the current facility and/or the inability to build a new stadium, often at taxpayer expense - examples include the los angeles rams, houston oilers, cleveland browns, baltimore colts, and many other franchises) or ownership issues (e.g. bankruptcy, a major scandal that forces a sale or relocation (norm green, george shinn), a desire to abandon the market for one's hometown (clay bennett), or plain old greed (bob short, al davis, georgia frontiere).
Norm Green was actually a National Hockey League owner and George Shinn an NBA owner, and when I checked I could find no indication of bankruptcy. Has bankruptcy ever driven a relocation and could it in the future? The only case I could imagine when I checked Forbes is with the Raiders, and their losses are small enough that I cannot imagine genuine bankruptcy in the foreseeable future unless the Raiders equal or match the 2007 to 2009 Rams’ woeful 6-42 record and have constant blackouts.
In the case of Clay Bennett, one wonders if it would be a good trade for Seattle to gain a National Hockey League team at the expense of NBA. Studies suggest Seattle can support one or the other but not both, and culturally the Pacific Northwest is better equipped to support NHL than NBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbergen
the LA market didn't "fail" twice. both the rams and raiders left due to stadium issues and greedy, carpetbagging owners who didn't care about screwing over the local LA fans as long as they got their new (or refurbished) stadium, no matter where it was located.
as it turns out, both georgia frontiere (rams owner at the time) and al davis were short-sighted, as their respective teams are experiencing stadium issues once again. as a result, both the rams and raiders are two of the three prime candidates to relocate back to LA - the other being the san diego chargers, who are no closer to building a new stadium in SD than they were ten years ago.
It seems now that the Chargers will relocate to Los Angeles when Farmers Stadium is built: there is a lot of evidence that the Oakland Raiders may be allowed to share the new Santa Clara Stadium with the 49ers. I am not sure whether a Chargers relocation in 2016 can be confirmed three years before it is due to occur? Would it be accepted by anyone in San Diego given the team’s history?
Last edited by mianfei; 02-10-2013 at 06:54 AM..
Reason: About bankruptcy as a cause of relocation
Norm Green was actually a National Hockey League owner and George Shinn an NBA owner,
i am well aware of that fact and did not suggest otherwise. in my post you quoted, i listed former pro sports owners in general, not just nfl owners, to make my point. which is why i mentioned guys like norm green and george shinn.
Quote:
and when I checked I could find no indication of bankruptcy.
again, you misinterpreted my words. i did not state that either norm green or george shinn went bankrupt or that their personal finances were the primary factor that drove them out of minnesota and charlotte, respectively. i cited those two owners as examples of "a major scandal that forces a sale or relocation".
Quote:
Has bankruptcy ever driven a relocation and could it in the future?
the seattle pilots declared bankruptcy following the 1969 season, their one and only year in major league baseball. because of their hopeless financial situation, they relocated to milwaukee and became the brewers less than one week before opening day in 1970.
the pilots are arguably the most notorious example of a franchise relocating due to financial woes in modern north american pro sports history.
historically, there have been numerous pro sports franchises that relocated or folded outright due to severe financial distress (not necessarily bankruptcy per se), including huge amounts of debt, inability to meet payroll, and lack of capital/resources. this was especially true in the early years of the four major north american professional sports leagues.
consider how many nfl franchises relocated or folded during the first couple of decades of that league's existence - only a handful of teams from the 1920s-30s remain in operation today. even as recently as 1952, the dallas texans franchise folded after one year of operation due to major financial issues. the team's owners were unable to meet payroll and actually had to sell the franchise back to the league halfway through the season. at the end of the season, the league was unable to find a buyer for the texans, so the franchise was folded.
other examples (among many) include the kansas city scouts of the nhl, who relocated to denver in 1976 due in large part to severe financial problems despite being created only two years prior. in 1978, the cleveland barons, who had moved from the sf bay area only two years earlier, were on the verge of declaring bankruptcy but instead merged with the minnesota north stars. and the vagabond franchise now known as the sacramento kings, which began as the rochester royals and subsequently moved to cincinnati and kansas city/omaha before settling in sacramento, has relocated several times due to attendance, market size, or financial issues in general.
in more recent decades, there have been several instances in which franchises declared bankruptcy but did not relocate. the texas rangers filed for bankruptcy in 2010 and the los angeles dodgers in 2011, both due to ownership problems rather than attendance, the market itself, or stadium issues. the pittsburgh penguins declared bankruptcy in 1975 and 1998, the ottawa senators and buffalo sabres in 2003, and the phoenix coyotes in 2009.
there was never a chance of the rangers or dodgers moving out of town, but the penguins and coyotes in particular were very real candidates for relocation due to their financial woes. even with a new owner, the coyotes are no guarantee to remain in the phoenix area long-term.
Quote:
The only case I could imagine when I checked Forbes is with the Raiders, and their losses are small enough that I cannot imagine genuine bankruptcy in the foreseeable future unless the Raiders equal or match the 2007 to 2009 Rams’ woeful 6-42 record and have constant blackouts.
the raiders have frequent blackouts as it is, yet they're in no danger of going bankrupt anytime soon, if ever. nfl teams are far more valuable on average than franchises in the other major pro sports leagues, thanks in large part to the league's national tv contracts.
Quote:
In the case of Clay Bennett, one wonders if it would be a good trade for Seattle to gain a National Hockey League team at the expense of NBA. Studies suggest Seattle can support one or the other but not both, and culturally the Pacific Northwest is better equipped to support NHL than NBA.
assuming the new arena is built, an nhl team isn't coming to seattle without an nba team being secured first. the man behind the push for a new facility, chris hansen, is solely focused on acquiring an nba team to replace the sonics. he's said that he's open to having an nhl team as a tenant in the new arena, but he wouldn't have an ownership stake in that team.
so while there might end up being an nba team in seattle without an nhl team, the reverse isn't going to happen - there isn't going to be an nba/nhl tradeoff.
and although i do agree that the nhl would work in seattle, sonics fans proved over several decades that it's a great nba market, so i'm not sure that hockey is necessarily a better fit than pro hoops.
Quote:
It seems now that the Chargers will relocate to Los Angeles when Farmers Stadium is built: there is a lot of evidence that the Oakland Raiders may be allowed to share the new Santa Clara Stadium with the 49ers. I am not sure whether a Chargers relocation in 2016 can be confirmed three years before it is due to occur? Would it be accepted by anyone in San Diego given the team’s history?
i'm still guessing that the chargers and the rams are the two favorites to relocate to LA, but the sale of AEG (who would be financing and constructing farmers field) needs to be completed before any franchise owner even thinks of applying for relocation. i wouldn't be surprised if one of those two teams files for relocation a year from now, but in order to relocate, both teams would need to buy out the remaining years on their stadium leases. there's no way they'd announce a relocation several years in advance, as the league does not want a repeat of the cleveland browns or houston oilers playing in front of sparse crowds after announcing they'd be leaving town.
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