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Old 05-26-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,408 posts, read 1,960,621 times
Reputation: 10027

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LA is not for everybody, no place is. Every person who gives up and leaves represents one less car on the freeway and puts me 20 feet closer to home.

Mike
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,953,730 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220 View Post
It's tough because I want to just say "here's the door, enjoy your trip" to all these people who decide to leave (especially when they try to convince everyone else to leave like it's f-ing Jerry Maguire)... but most of these people are solidly middle class and LA needs them to keep the economy going.

It's a huge fundamental problem: LA just isn't working anymore for the average American middle-of-the-roader. It's obviously a nationwide epidemic that the middle class is shrinking, but I wish there was some way to alleviate the situation somewhat here.

From what I can see, the main issue is COL for a "standard" American-entitlement-style over-consumptive suburban family lifestyle. LA has basically been "built out" so you no longer have new suburbs being built here for people who want that kind of thing (unlike all of the Texas cities that poach former angelenos). Riverside and San Bernardino and Apple Valley and wherever are just too inaccessible... They're not "too far" but the mode of accessing jobs (i.e. jammed freeways) doesn't work at that scale. People can't handle that kind of thing and stay sane.

What that means is that we end up with people who are rich enough to actually afford a plot of land in an established nice neighborhood, or low-income people who cram onto rented plots of land in established "undesirable" neighborhoods. When you don't have new development, you're basically requiring gentrification to happen in order to provide new middle-class housing. And there aren't enough gays and artists even in Los Angeles to do that on the scale that is really necessary. Also, there's a good chance that the housing that does get developed will be more expensive than middle-class due to the high cost of land. Oh yeah, and the schools will still suck for a few more generations.

In other words, there's nothing like greenfields to keep the US consumption-based economy going... and this really sucks for a place like LA that has nowhere else to build.

(btw, Miami has the same problem due to the everglades hemming in development.)

So what do we do? I guess I'm back to showing these people the door.. because unless we can find a super cheap way to chop down some mountains we're not going to be able to provide people a cheap new house that's near to employment opportunities.
Perhaps the problem is the expectation of that particular "standard overconsumptive" lifestyle, and not accepting "cramming into rented plots of land". Americans didn't have a problem with that in the first half of the 20th century. The extended prosperity of most of the 2nd half of the 20th century created those expectations. That overconsumptive economy has now obviously failed and a new model is required.

FWIW most affluent people in L.A. rent their plots of land. There is no economic stigma associated with renting. In fact homeownership rates are higher in East and South LA than they are on the westside. The wealthier the neighborhood, the more renters there are.

And not everyone who's leaving, or even a majority, are solidly middle class. That was more true 10 or 20 years ago. Plenty of the poor, and some of the wealthy, are also leaving - and the poor are generally going to places middle class Angelenos went to already. L.A. having the smallest middle class in the US IS a serious problem, but L.A. needs to develop an economy that can create this (this is a problem in the entire US btw).

FWIW, do you see any L.A. neighborhoods being knocked down to condense the city as is being done in the Rust Belt, especially Flint and Detroit, but there's also talk of this in Cleveland?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,085,097 times
Reputation: 1406
I have heard from many here that renting still has a stigma, that renters bring down home values, and that renting somehow means you can't get a house or have lost your house. Kind of weird to me but it's obviously different there than in most places. It was also much harder to find a nice rental, and I had to spend quite a bit to get into something that even compares to what I'm used to. It's certainly more than double $ for less space and less quality than I have now. Plus the extra fees and deposits that make you feel like a criminal before you even move in (required renters insurance, pet rent, deposits for electric and gas, and giant security deposits that look more like down payments on a home).
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,953,730 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb123 View Post
I have heard from many here that renting still has a stigma, that renters bring down home values, and that renting somehow means you can't get a house or have lost your house. Kind of weird to me but it's obviously different there than in most places. It was also much harder to find a nice rental, and I had to spend quite a bit to get into something that even compares to what I'm used to. It's certainly more than double $ for less space and less quality than I have now. Plus the extra fees and deposits that make you feel like a criminal before you even move in (required renters insurance, pet rent, deposits for electric and gas, and giant security deposits that look more like down payments on a home).
That type of thinking does not exist in Los Angeles or anywhere else in the US I've been to. In fact I've never encountered it outside of City-Data boards in America. (It's more common amongst Australians but how many of the people posting that crap are from Down Under? ). Basing the region's view on what's said on these boards is like basing one's view of a certain highly diverse and solidly middle class inner suburb with little ethnic/racial tension on a visit to a pub there which is a hangout for white supremacists. In the US there is a belief that owning signifies more achievement, but it isn't necessarily used to stigmatize renters. These days it makes more economic sense to rent than to own. If "renters bring down home values" Beverly Hills would be one of the cheapest areas in the LA Metro. If you grew up in L.A. and you're under 50 then you know you're never going to own unless you inherit property or you're super wealthy.

Now, there are some pretty awful landlords in L.A., especially the big corporate ones, but there are some good ones too. Unfortunately the good ones are harder to find. I've never had to pay required renters' insurance or pet rent....
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:18 PM
 
276 posts, read 892,067 times
Reputation: 276
LOL! LOL! LOL!

Although the OP was a while ago, just hoping the OP checks back in LOL!

Any single, female who earned 100K a year, and can't make it in LA really does not need to be here!

I would suggest you brush up on your financial planning skills.

Good luck ! LOL, LOL Sorry, but this was a funny post!
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Not where I want to be.
1,189 posts, read 1,463,070 times
Reputation: 2009
I still want to come to Southern Cali

I am married and have three kids. I have been looking online at homes to rent and the prices are crazy. I've even looked as far out as Upland and Ontario. It is very discouraging to say the least, but its not detering me from wanting to do it since it is something I have wanted all my life. I don't expect to live in or even near L.A. (but it would be nice) and my husband doesn't mind a longer commute if it means we can live where we have always wanted. He used to live there back in the 90's right in Hollywood, but that is where he went to school.

Anyway, we need at least three beds and 1.5 baths and a yard for our dog and kids to play and its next to impossible unless I live in a "bad" area. You would never know an area is not safe just by looking at the homes there, that is for sure. This forum has been a huge help there. Who knew Palmdale was not so desireable and none too safe? Probably not an "out of towner" like me until alot of people here told me. Still need to sell our home first to make the move, but it seems the prices have gone up considerably since last year even just for rent. Looking on Realtor.com...not sure where else to look unless anyone has a suggestion. I know I will eventually need a realtor to help us find a home as not all are listed, but I still like to look.
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