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Old 02-15-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,348,939 times
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Indy also has trouble selling out the colts in the smallest NFL stadium.

I LOVE Indy Motor Speedway, though. It's the holy grail of auto racing
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:53 PM
 
7,067 posts, read 16,645,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bw87a View Post
I would like to say something on the matter of support for a pro team. The above posted asked if So. Indiana would support a Louisville team or the Pacers? I frankly do not care. I'm a big Pacers fan and it makes me so mad that Pacers games are not broadcasted in Louisville. Most games are on FSIN and that is not shown on a standard cable package in Louisville. I'm also a Cincinnati Reds fan and I can see almost every one of their games on FSOH. When a Pacers official commented several years ago about Louisville getting an NBA team and how it would hurt the Pacers, I got so mad. They need to do a better job at marketing their team if they want to draw from Louisville. I check attendance records also, and the Pacers have some of the worst attendance in the league. They can't even sell out a Pacers/Pistons game. WTF?!

Props to the guy who commented about minor league teams not working here because who wants minor league when you live in a city as big as Louisville. The bats are an exception, but other than that, I'd agree it's gonna be hard for anything to work. Why just eat the cake when you're good enough for the icing too?
The Pacers and the Kentucky Colonels would be an instant, heated rivalry. Louisville would draw lots of fans from Frankfort, Scottsburg, down to Etown, and Lexington, and even a few from Cincy MSA (especially the NKY part) for weekend games. As far as Indiana, anywhere north of Scottsburg would be Pacers land, but if a Louisville team was good it could make inroads all the way up to Seymour and certainly on over to Evansville....in other words, the market is there for a team with well over 3 million potential fans by my estimation, with of course about 1.3 million in the immediate commuting range (less than 40 miles).

I would think some big companies in NKY like Ashland Oil may even buy box seats. The NBA will go anywhere as long as the luxury boxes and big tickets are sold...daily attendance really mans squat. Its already been studied...Louisville has more than enough money to support one team...there are similar sized cities like nashville with two pro teams! That said, whether the city can land one depends on leadership from the mayor's office and a bigshot local guy who would be interested in buying a team and moving it here...I have a strong suspicion that Todd Blue has his sights set on buying a team considering he recently formed a sports entertainment company and has been working with pro athletes.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: louisville, ky
257 posts, read 877,679 times
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i would only hope so. i like the idea of NKY helping out and using their corporate manpower to help the rest of the state.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,348,939 times
Reputation: 12186
Of the cities most often mentioned for an NBA team, Louisville has the wealthiest metro

Median incomes in metro areas w/o a pro team

(rank - city- pop- median income)

97 Louisville, KY--IN MSA 1,025,598 $40,821

124 Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, AL MSA 921,106 $39,278

127 Albuquerque, NM MSA 712,738 $39,088

168 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,083,346 $36,797

SOURCE: Highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-16-2008, 11:05 PM
 
96 posts, read 614,626 times
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It's not a matter of whether Louisville could support an NBA team. It can. But the problem is just that an NBA team isn't coming. They have blown all of their chances in the past 30+ years. As long as Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams have scheduling priority in the new arena an NBA team will not come and you can take that to the bank.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:56 PM
 
Location: louisville, ky
257 posts, read 877,679 times
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that source seems to be pretty old. louisville's msa is much closer to 1.3 and 1.4 million. that source lists it barely above a million. i'm sure we're much better off now, for we've brought in many more high paying jobs to the metro area.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:32 PM
 
7,067 posts, read 16,645,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bw87a View Post
that source seems to be pretty old. louisville's msa is much closer to 1.3 and 1.4 million. that source lists it barely above a million. i'm sure we're much better off now, for we've brought in many more high paying jobs to the metro area.
The MSA eas estimated at 1.22 million in 2006. In 2000, it was just over 1 million. I personallythink they are underestimating the growth, and a MSA of 1.4 million by 2010 would be likely IMO. That would make the CSA much higher, well over 1.5 million.
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:02 PM
 
54 posts, read 230,528 times
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No offense, FutureMover, but your posts show just how little you know of the economics of pro sports. The NFL is the easiest sport to support. You have 10 home games (8 regular season, 2 preseason), with average 65,000 fans per event. That is a total attendance of 650,000. Plus, with only 10 dates, a week apart, mostly on weekends, travel to and from is doable. Thus, you see small markets (Buffalo, Nashville, Jacksonville, Green Bay) support the NFL. NBA has 42 home dates. You'd need around 15,000 per game to equal the same attendance as the NFL, which isn't terrible. But, with more dates, it's hard to charge as much per ticket. MLB is the most difficult to support, and the success of your team is almost directly proportional to the amount of money you can charge per ticket. That is why Pittsburgh and Tampa struggle, and the BoSox and Yankees thrive.

Louisville could support (individually and corporately) any type of franchise other than MLB, with the NFL being the easiest. However, there is actually a negative chance we're getting an NFL team. It really has nothing to do with our market, but more with the markets around us.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:42 PM
 
96 posts, read 614,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
No offense, FutureMover, but your posts show just how little you know of the economics of pro sports. The NFL is the easiest sport to support. You have 10 home games (8 regular season, 2 preseason), with average 65,000 fans per event. That is a total attendance of 650,000. Plus, with only 10 dates, a week apart, mostly on weekends, travel to and from is doable. Thus, you see small markets (Buffalo, Nashville, Jacksonville, Green Bay) support the NFL. NBA has 42 home dates. You'd need around 15,000 per game to equal the same attendance as the NFL, which isn't terrible. But, with more dates, it's hard to charge as much per ticket. MLB is the most difficult to support, and the success of your team is almost directly proportional to the amount of money you can charge per ticket. That is why Pittsburgh and Tampa struggle, and the BoSox and Yankees thrive.

Louisville could support (individually and corporately) any type of franchise other than MLB, with the NFL being the easiest. However, there is actually a negative chance we're getting an NFL team. It really has nothing to do with our market, but more with the markets around us.
I understand just fine. In fact it's a pretty simple formula: Put fans in the seats... You can say New York has all of the resources to support a MLB team all you want but if 50,000 Yankee fans don't show up and only 3,000 do each night then Mr. Steinbrenner isn't going to be very happy. I haven't one time said Louisville couldn't support NFL or NHL because the market is too small or the money is not there. I have said Louisville can't support NFL or NHL because people won't go. Now that is my opinion and you saying that people will go is your opinion... There's not really any facts that state whether 70,000 fans will fill a NFL stadium when they barely get 42,000 to fill their college football stadium or whether 18,000 fans will fill an NHL arena when they drew about 1,000 people a game for Louisville Panthers games. Whether the numbers are there or not the bottom line is you need butts in seats and I really don't think it would work. Even if it did there's quite a few places I'd put my team before Louisville if I were an NFL or NHL owner. You mention Buffalo and Jacksonville as small markets that can support the NFL, but have you checked the attendance lately? Buffalo is #31 and Jacksonville #32 in attendance. Many think the Bills will eventually have to leave because of it and Buffalo's decereasing population. The Jaguars had 4 sections of the upper deck covered with big tarps last year because they couldn't sell the tickets. I don't know what their status is as far as contracts with the city of Jacksonville and their stadium lease but I bet they eventually end up re-locating too.

Nashville I will admit does support the NFL very well. They sell out every game and in a short time in Nashville the Titans have built a very solid fan base. But that doesn't necessarily mean Louisville would do the same. Green Bay is Green Bay they will always support the Packers. It doesn't always have everything to do with the market size. Green Bay has a population of about 100,000. If you put an NFL team in Billings, Montana which also has a population of about 100,000, would it work?

Whether Louisville could support NFL or NHL is debatable but the reality is that Louisville is never going to get a NFL or NHL team anyways so what's the point in arguing about it? Yes the money may be there but the bottom line is you need people to show up to the games. I'm not necessarily saying it couldn't possibly happen but I can guarantee you there is less risk in places like Los Angeles, San Antonio, Las Vegas, etc. and that's why those places will get teams before Louisville will. More money there plus a better chance of people going to the games.

Pretend the Grizzlies were never in Vancouver. You could look at Vancouver and say that it COULD support an NBA team, the support is clearly there, but look what happened. People didn't show up and as a result they had to move. The same thing is happening in New Orleans. Pretend the Expos were never in Montreal. You could look at Montreal and think wow a 3.5 million+ metro plus Toronto seems to do pretty good with the Blue Jays... why wouldn't it work? But look what happened they couldn't get anymore than 3,000 a game and had to move. Just because the market size says it can support a team doesn't always mean that it really can.

The NBA is the only thing that there's a chance Louisville has a realistic chance of getting and there's a chance the Hornets may have to move in 2010 which is when the arena will be finished and there's yet another golden opportunity for Louisville to get a pro sports franchise but unless they are willing to give the NBA team scheduling priority then they will blow their 84th chance to get a team. I think it's pretty clear that the city wants a team but they have blown all of their opportunities to get one.

My point overall is not so much that Louisville just can't possibly support NFL or NHL but more that Louisville just won't ever get a team in those leagues because there's too many other places that can support a team in those leagues more and have a lot less risk. I just personally do not feel that enough people would show up to NFL or especially NHL games in Louisville because of its past in those sports at the college and minor league levels. But, you never know... I mean who would've ever thought that Dallas, Texas would be one of the leaders in attendance for NHL?
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:54 PM
 
Location: louisville, ky
257 posts, read 877,679 times
Reputation: 96
so again, you're basing your claims on the fact that YOU think people won't show up. that's not too smart either. it doesn't make sense to say louisville won't get a team because nobody will show up. you cannot possible predict that ahead of time.

and for the last time, louisville is at an edge. it has minor league teams and tinkers with the thought of pro teams. people are much more likely to support a pro team over a minor league team in louisville. louisville is a big enough city and people are expanding their sense of the city well enough that there is a big-league mindset. minor league will not work here. the bats are an exception, because as noted before, louisville could most likely NOT support an MLB team.

i've also said this countless times before, but louisville needs to expand its opportunities for the young professionals it's bringing in to the city. these professionals and businessmen do not want to spend their money at a UofL college basketball/football game. many of them went to other colleges and have their allegiances elsewhere.
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