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Old 01-16-2015, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Louisville Area
68 posts, read 87,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Spot on, Mcdougal. If Louisville were NYC (it is FAR FAR from it ), then New Albany would be Brooklyn. Across the bridge but still funky, quirky, local, and many of its residents "do their own thing," without a need to go into the "city."
Great comparison!
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:39 AM
 
6,882 posts, read 14,736,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDougal66 View Post
Great comparison!
Not many know this. But Louisville was historically a HUGE city. Bigger than DC bigger than Detroit or San Fran


https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab09.txt

In 1860, Louisville was poised to be one of America's premiere big cities. It was ranked 12th in America in city population, and this is not even counting the nearby suburban towns...Jeffersonville, New Albany, Clarksville, and many other areas were not counted in this population. Both Cincinnati and Louisville and their cross river towns were big time cities. Louisville was so "big" at the time, that Louisville's suburb of New Albany In (just getting past being the capital and then still the second largest city in Indiana), was larger than Atlanta. That's right, New Albany was larger than Atlanta!

Louisville stayed very large important through the 1920's as a legitimate top 25 city. Then the city basically stagnated and loss half its population and jobs after WW2 (to be correct, from the 1960s on). A lot of this was a decline in the manufacturing base and also urban renewal. If Louisville had kept even 25% of its nineteenth or early twentieth century city, it would likely be among the biggest tourist areas in the country, right up there with Savannah and New Orleans. Sadly, much of what was historic Lville is now a parking lot!
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Louisville Area
68 posts, read 87,358 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Not many know this. But Louisville was historically a HUGE city. Bigger than DC bigger than Detroit or San Fran


https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab09.txt

In 1860, Louisville was poised to be one of America's premiere big cities. It was ranked 12th in America in city population, and this is not even counting the nearby suburban towns...Jeffersonville, New Albany, Clarksville, and many other areas were not counted in this population. Both Cincinnati and Louisville and their cross river towns were big time cities. Louisville was so "big" at the time, that Louisville's suburb of New Albany In (just getting past being the capital and then still the second largest city in Indiana), was larger than Atlanta. That's right, New Albany was larger than Atlanta!

Louisville stayed very large important through the 1920's as a legitimate top 25 city. Then the city basically stagnated and loss half its population and jobs after WW2 (to be correct, from the 1960s on). A lot of this was a decline in the manufacturing base and also urban renewal. If Louisville had kept even 25% of its nineteenth or early twentieth century city, it would likely be among the biggest tourist areas in the country, right up there with Savannah and New Orleans. Sadly, much of what was historic Lville is now a parking lot!
It's really sad what was done in the name of "urban renewal" in the 60s and later. The tearing down of historically important buildings for things like parking, and driving people out of the city by running interstates through them, isolating communities. Louisville's "urban renewal" was pretty bad. Lots of those gorgeous facades downtown gone.

Yes, the New Albany history is storied. Very old town, and it is definitely mind-blowing that it was as big as it was relative to Louisville and other cities at the time.

On a side note, Jeff Speck recently did a compehensive street study of New Albany to assist the city in handling the coming traffic boom, accommodate the growing local scene and make it even more walkable and bikable. VERY interesting read. He's done this stuff for many communities big and small.

The pdf is here: http://www.cityofnewalbany.com/image...compressed.pdf
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:03 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,023 posts, read 22,515,963 times
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New Albany was the largest town in Indiana until after the Civil War and home to nearly all of the state's wealthiest residents. The area near the Culbertson Mansion is what remains of those early big money residents' fashionable neighborhood. It's reminds me a lot of the best parts of Old Louisville. I went by there the other day and the city has redone Main St, adding nice looking street lights and improving sidewalks.

I would amend my earlier statement, it's not widespread blight in NA but mainly that all homes aren't equally well kept up. On my bro in law's street there are homes worth $150k and ones worth $20k. (it's a long street) It is true that right now there are still a good number of underused buildings in downtown but that should improve as urban lovers get priced out of Louisville's Inner East Side and move in. I know several people from work that have recently moved from the Highlands to NA.

The best local comparison for Jeffersonville is Valley Station with a small urban core that resembles Clifton Heights with a small town Main Street. Suburban areas of J'ville and all of VS look a lot alike, from the age and type of suburban housing to the light industrial areas next to the river. Both have some retail. The older parts of J'ville are more spread out (bigger yards) than NA and the houses are mostly small cottages, not Victorian mansions. It is similar to Clifton Heights which is also old but similar density to a modern suburb

I have read that Clarksville had a small Main St area that was bulldozed after the 1937 flood, it was too high risk of a flood zone. It's actually the oldest of the three cities.
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Old 01-27-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Louisville Area
68 posts, read 87,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
I would amend my earlier statement, it's not widespread blight in NA but mainly that all homes aren't equally well kept up. On my bro in law's street there are homes worth $150k and ones worth $20k. (it's a long street) It is true that right now there are still a good number of underused buildings in downtown but that should improve as urban lovers get priced out of Louisville's Inner East Side and move in. I know several people from work that have recently moved from the Highlands to NA.
That's exactly the dilemma I see for many, and one that we've had: priced out of the areas we've traditionally liked. While all areas of NA continue to improve, there are some very consistent areas. A quick drive down Elm St. from I64 to the eastern neighborhoods of NA gives a good feel of the range.

Quote:
The best local comparison for Jeffersonville is Valley Station with a small urban core that resembles Clifton Heights with a small town Main Street. Suburban areas of J'ville and all of VS look a lot alike, from the age and type of suburban housing to the light industrial areas next to the river. Both have some retail. The older parts of J'ville are more spread out (bigger yards) than NA and the houses are mostly small cottages, not Victorian mansions. It is similar to Clifton Heights which is also old but similar density to a modern suburb

I have read that Clarksville had a small Main St area that was bulldozed after the 1937 flood, it was too high risk of a flood zone. It's actually the oldest of the three cities.
And apparently, the new Greentree Mall played a big role in the downward slide of the NA downtown, like in many other places during that time.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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The issue with Clarksville's downtown wasn't malls and empty storefronts, it was bulldozers. I have a lot of trouble finding much info by Google searching. I think Louisville's Shippingport neighborhood had a similar fate post 1937 Flood.

The one area of S IN that is bad now and has little upside is the southern part of Clarksville, pretty much anything south of Lewis and Clark Pky and especially south of Brown Station Hwy. It's a White Ghetto on par with Portland. I actually saw an abandoned house with "don't break in - all copper already stolen" spray painted on it. Epic.

The main thing I hate about Indiana is they charge a per car admission just to enter a state park, it's $7 a day for non residents and $3 a day for resident Hoosiers. In a nation of obesity and inactivity there should be no bars to enter a place to exercise and enjoy nature. In Kentucky parks are considered a place where rich and poor are equally welcome. New Albany is creating a free park SW of town with hiking trails but all other hiking trails are in state parks.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:56 PM
 
797 posts, read 2,118,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The one area of S IN that is bad now and has little upside is the southern part of Clarksville, pretty much anything south of Lewis and Clark Pky and especially south of Brown Station Hwy. It's a White Ghetto on par with Portland. I actually saw an abandoned house with "don't break in - all copper already stolen" spray painted on it. Epic.

The main thing I hate about Indiana is they charge a per car admission just to enter a state park, it's $7 a day for non residents and $3 a day for resident Hoosiers. In a nation of obesity and inactivity there should be no bars to enter a place to exercise and enjoy nature. In Kentucky parks are considered a place where rich and poor are equally welcome. New Albany is creating a free park SW of town with hiking trails but all other hiking trails are in state parks.
I don't really know that all of this is entirely accurate. No upside to anything south of Brown's Station Way? There's the entire Riverfront. The Widow's Walk ice cream house, bike rentals, Ashland Park with newer playground equipment and great views of downtown Louisville, Falls of the Ohio State Park, The George Rogers Clark homesite, and the Ohio River Greenway which runs all along the river and connects these places as well as some of the neighborhoods along the way. There's also Derby Dinner Playhouse south of Brown's Station as well as at least one small water park and a public pool I think. There are also several restaurants which technically have a Jeffersonville address I think, but are literally right on the Clarksville border.

Don't get me wrong. Clarksville as a whole would probably rank lowest out of the three towns right along the Indiana side of the river and definitely has some shady apartments and homes in places, but there are some decent looking places as well and plenty of access to several amenities. Including the fact that it's much easier to walk or ride a bike from there to downtown Louisville than it is from many of the nicer parts of Louisville itself. There are also quite a few hispanics in Clarksville. I just don't think it can be called a White Ghetto with no redeeming qualities.

State park rates are $5 in Indiana for a car with IN tags, not $3. Still, I hardly think $5 for an entire day of entertainment and activities for an entire family is exclusive to the poor. What else is an entire family going to do for that price? It's plenty easy to park close to the Falls of the Ohio park as well without having to pay that fee.

I'm not going to divulge all my hidden hiking spots, but there are plenty of free nature preserves in Floyd and Clark Counties that aren't state parks. The Knobstone Trail is also a big opportunity for free access to nature. It starts near Deam Lake, is completely free, has several points where you can start from and covers around 50 miles through the knobs up to the Salem area. The Loop Island Wetlands in New Albany is free too. Last time I was there I had a fox take off from about 10 feet away from me, I got within about 10-15 feet of a beaver at eye level in a small tree, and saw a large variety of birds and animals as well. I'm just saying there's no reason why someone who doesn't have $5 can't have some outdoor nature experiences.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Louisville Area
68 posts, read 87,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingIndiana View Post
I don't really know that all of this is entirely accurate. No upside to anything south of Brown's Station Way? There's the entire Riverfront. The Widow's Walk ice cream house, bike rentals, Ashland Park with newer playground equipment and great views of downtown Louisville, Falls of the Ohio State Park, The George Rogers Clark homesite, and the Ohio River Greenway which runs all along the river and connects these places as well as some of the neighborhoods along the way. There's also Derby Dinner Playhouse south of Brown's Station as well as at least one small water park and a public pool I think. There are also several restaurants which technically have a Jeffersonville address I think, but are literally right on the Clarksville border.

Don't get me wrong. Clarksville as a whole would probably rank lowest out of the three towns right along the Indiana side of the river and definitely has some shady apartments and homes in places, but there are some decent looking places as well and plenty of access to several amenities. Including the fact that it's much easier to walk or ride a bike from there to downtown Louisville than it is from many of the nicer parts of Louisville itself. There are also quite a few hispanics in Clarksville. I just don't think it can be called a White Ghetto with no redeeming qualities.
Yeah, when I think of a "ghetto" or "blighted areas", I'm thinking of boarded-up neighborhoods, dealers standing around, etc.

As a matter of fact, there are some excellent, well-kept older homes between Browns Station and the river in Clarksville, particularly along the Ohio River Scenic Byway. I certainly don't think "white ghetto" when looking at the manicured lawns and freshly painted early-1900s homes there, lol.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:35 PM
 
6,882 posts, read 14,736,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingIndiana View Post
I don't really know that all of this is entirely accurate. No upside to anything south of Brown's Station Way? There's the entire Riverfront. The Widow's Walk ice cream house, bike rentals, Ashland Park with newer playground equipment and great views of downtown Louisville, Falls of the Ohio State Park, The George Rogers Clark homesite, and the Ohio River Greenway which runs all along the river and connects these places as well as some of the neighborhoods along the way. There's also Derby Dinner Playhouse south of Brown's Station as well as at least one small water park and a public pool I think. There are also several restaurants which technically have a Jeffersonville address I think, but are literally right on the Clarksville border.

Don't get me wrong. Clarksville as a whole would probably rank lowest out of the three towns right along the Indiana side of the river and definitely has some shady apartments and homes in places, but there are some decent looking places as well and plenty of access to several amenities. Including the fact that it's much easier to walk or ride a bike from there to downtown Louisville than it is from many of the nicer parts of Louisville itself. There are also quite a few hispanics in Clarksville. I just don't think it can be called a White Ghetto with no redeeming qualities.

State park rates are $5 in Indiana for a car with IN tags, not $3. Still, I hardly think $5 for an entire day of entertainment and activities for an entire family is exclusive to the poor. What else is an entire family going to do for that price? It's plenty easy to park close to the Falls of the Ohio park as well without having to pay that fee.

I'm not going to divulge all my hidden hiking spots, but there are plenty of free nature preserves in Floyd and Clark Counties that aren't state parks. The Knobstone Trail is also a big opportunity for free access to nature. It starts near Deam Lake, is completely free, has several points where you can start from and covers around 50 miles through the knobs up to the Salem area. The Loop Island Wetlands in New Albany is free too. Last time I was there I had a fox take off from about 10 feet away from me, I got within about 10-15 feet of a beaver at eye level in a small tree, and saw a large variety of birds and animals as well. I'm just saying there's no reason why someone who doesn't have $5 can't have some outdoor nature experiences.
EXCELLENT, well cited rebuttal. This is how you prove people do not have the "whole picture correct." While Census knows a lot of data, I find his info very grossly over generalizes S. Ind especially. I agree wholeheartedly that Clarksville is a nice little town. It looks a lot like Buechel, Beechmont, and probably a bit of Shelby Park, Portland, Shively, and Germantown sprinkled in. Yes, it is an old "inner city" neighborhood of Louisville but it is far from "run down" or blighted. Maybe just a bit worn and tired in spots? But theres a lot of potential....the entire towns potential depends on what happens with the Colgate property....put a high-rise code tower and fill up Colgate with apartments, business, and a farmers market, and Clarksville instantly gentrifies.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Louisville Area
68 posts, read 87,358 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
EXCELLENT, well cited rebuttal. This is how you prove people do not have the "whole picture correct." While Census knows a lot of data, I find his info very grossly over generalizes S. Ind especially. I agree wholeheartedly that Clarksville is a nice little town. It looks a lot like Buechel, Beechmont, and probably a bit of Shelby Park, Portland, Shively, and Germantown sprinkled in. Yes, it is an old "inner city" neighborhood of Louisville but it is far from "run down" or blighted. Maybe just a bit worn and tired in spots? But theres a lot of potential....the entire towns potential depends on what happens with the Colgate property....put a high-rise code tower and fill up Colgate with apartments, business, and a farmers market, and Clarksville instantly gentrifies.
That Colgate property has been there vacant forever, it seems. It really surprises me that nobody has taken advantage of the amazing view of downtown across the river! Just call it Colgate Place or something.
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