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Old 10-21-2015, 07:58 PM
 
Location: IL/IN/FL/CA/KY/FL
1,129 posts, read 803,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Transit..meh. It is not as bad as people say but then again, there is no city anywhere near Louisville's size and pricepoints that has elite transit. If you live downtown, Old Louisville, or near Bardstown or Frankfort inside the 264 beltway, you can use it pretty well to go to and from downtown and vice versa. Otherwise it is serviceable. Nothing like transit you are used to in the NE. And although the urban core is very walkable and bike friendly (Louisville is now a Silver bike city), obviously there is no train system. However, even mid sized cities with small transit systems like Portland, Cleveland, or even Buffalo don't really have any better transit than Louisville.
Louisville is the 30th most populous city in the US, and has the 96th ranked public transit system in trips per capita. It's not great. Indianapolis is god awful though. 16th largest city and the 200th ranked public transit system.

Portland's transit system is much better than Louisville - it's ranked 13th for the 28th largest city. Buffalo and Cleveland are 46th and 47th.

I appreciate how you talk up the city that you clearly adore, but I can't see how this shows that those systems aren't "better". I think it's best to be as fair and objective as possible so that potential new movers don't come here and get disappointed.

Links:

Top 50 Cities in the U.S. by Population and Rank

How Your City’s Public Transit Stacks Up | FiveThirtyEight
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:05 PM
 
3,464 posts, read 4,309,817 times
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Im sort of like you, a Northerner, an artist and musician, kRaZy KaT mAn---->when I saw the Highlands, that was it, we finally unpacked the bags that we had been carrying all over the country! I was THAT blown away by Louisville. Bardstown Rd./ the Highlands is changing a little, but thats for another thread, so also check out Crescent Hill and the Barret Ave section the Highlands/edge of Germantown. I grew up in Philly but always preferred rustbelt. Cinci, Pittsburgh etc . . .
Louisville is total rust-a-rama with lots of cultural stuff to keep a creative person busy as much as they want to be
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:00 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,196,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
Louisville is the 30th most populous city in the US, and has the 96th ranked public transit system in trips per capita. It's not great. Indianapolis is god awful though. 16th largest city and the 200th ranked public transit system.

Portland's transit system is much better than Louisville - it's ranked 13th for the 28th largest city. Buffalo and Cleveland are 46th and 47th.

I appreciate how you talk up the city that you clearly adore, but I can't see how this shows that those systems aren't "better". I think it's best to be as fair and objective as possible so that potential new movers don't come here and get disappointed.

Links:

Top 50 Cities in the U.S. by Population and Rank

How Your City’s Public Transit Stacks Up | FiveThirtyEight
Those lists mean nothing to me. I have used transit in all those cities. There is no difference to the average person trying to get around using only transit in Cleveland as there is in Louisville. And just because people use transit in Louisville less, how is it any inferior? In my mind, many wealthy Louisvillians would never use TARC because of the stigma associated with it, so sure, the per capita rides may be lower (just like Louisville's population is falsely inflated as a city due to suburban annexations, although I do like that the list uses urbanized area). Transit isn't a cool thing here. Transit sucks in Louisville outside the urban core, and ditto for Cleveland and Buffalo. Ever try going from Beachwood to Berea using transit in Cleveland? It is a nightmare. I am not playing up Louisville transit in anyway. But to act like those systems are any better than Louisville? Come on man. Maybe slightly, and that is only because they have rail. But look at who uses that rail. It is almost exclusively the poor and black.

The fact of the matter is, there are maybe 10 major cities with high level transit systems. Honestly I am not even sure Philly barely cracks that top 10. But look at that list. Athen's GA? Gainesville, FL? Gainesville in particular has very few redeeming qualities. I should know since I lived there.

Now, since you have sort of hijacked the thread, lets get back to answering the OP's questions. Louisville has some downs, sure, but its ups WAY outnumber the downs. Louisville has almost every amenity of a major city at a fraction of the cost, commute times, and frustrations.
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:32 AM
 
236 posts, read 215,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
I appreciate how you talk up the city that you clearly adore, but I can't see how this shows that those systems aren't "better". I think it's best to be as fair and objective as possible so that potential new movers don't come here and get disappointed.
I completely agree with this. To overstate the city's is not doing the posters asking for information any justice. Louisville has a crap transit system. That's ok, it has a lot of other things going for it. But acting like the OP would find it easy, much less convenient, to live in Louisville without a car is just setting him/her up to dislike their time in the city.

Could you use transit to go from A to B in Louisville? Probably. Is it a system with even semi convenient headways that you could rely on to get you where you needed to go in a reasonable time period on a day to day basis? Not even close. As mentioned, not many small/mid sized metros have serviceable transit. Louisville is no different. But let's not use the pathetic state of public transit in the US be used as a positive for Louisville. It's not.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:01 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,196,957 times
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Originally Posted by Kevin1813 View Post
I completely agree with this. To overstate the city's is not doing the posters asking for information any justice. Louisville has a crap transit system. That's ok, it has a lot of other things going for it. But acting like the OP would find it easy, much less convenient, to live in Louisville without a car is just setting him/her up to dislike their time in the city.

Could you use transit to go from A to B in Louisville? Probably. Is it a system with even semi convenient headways that you could rely on to get you where you needed to go in a reasonable time period on a day to day basis? Not even close. As mentioned, not many small/mid sized metros have serviceable transit. Louisville is no different. But let's not use the pathetic state of public transit in the US be used as a positive for Louisville. It's not.
Again, nice try. No where did I say Louisville has good transit. However, it IS serviceable. The fact is, you are correct, outside around 10 cities, US transit systems are a pure afterthought.

There ARE a few people with means who live carless in Louisville. Again, unless you only really go between the highlands and downtown, where you can catch a bus from the Douglass Loop to downtown and back pretty much every 20 mins on one of the multiple lines that run down the street, then I would not recommend living carless in Louisville. I would recommend getting a good bike, a cheap car for off peak hours, and living in the Highlands and using my bike and transit to supplement my trips.
Also, I believe local university students still ride the bus free, and we have some decent local colleges, of which Bellarmine is the best.

Louisville man tries 'car-free' experiment, after one month has no regrets

Pedalaround

Normal people do it. Again, I do AGREE you need a car to live in Louisville. But you and Servo are awfully quick to say negative things about my opinions, it often makes me wonder. Believe me, I have lived all over, and I know good transit. Louisville's TARC is no better or no worse than any other midsized city. Louisville's compact size is an advantage.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:13 PM
 
Location: IL/IN/FL/CA/KY/FL
1,129 posts, read 803,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Again, nice try. No where did I say Louisville has good transit. However, it IS serviceable. The fact is, you are correct, outside around 10 cities, US transit systems are a pure afterthought.

There ARE a few people with means who live carless in Louisville. Again, unless you only really go between the highlands and downtown, where you can catch a bus from the Douglass Loop to downtown and back pretty much every 20 mins on one of the multiple lines that run down the street, then I would not recommend living carless in Louisville. I would recommend getting a good bike, a cheap car for off peak hours, and living in the Highlands and using my bike and transit to supplement my trips.
Also, I believe local university students still ride the bus free, and we have some decent local colleges, of which Bellarmine is the best.

Louisville man tries 'car-free' experiment, after one month has no regrets

Pedalaround

Normal people do it. Again, I do AGREE you need a car to live in Louisville. But you and Servo are awfully quick to say negative things about my opinions, it often makes me wonder. Believe me, I have lived all over, and I know good transit. Louisville's TARC is no better or no worse than any other midsized city. Louisville's compact size is an advantage.
Makes you wonder about what? Sorry for derailing a thread, but it seems like we're not allowed to disagree with your opinions, when your opinions appear to be a minority opinion. I've personally experienced Portland transit, along with SF, NYC, Chicago, Buffalo, Indy and Orlando (among many others, but those are the ones I've used the most) and it is WORLDS ahead of TARC, and not just because of the light rail. We used light rail in Seattle a few weekends ago and it was easy to get from downtown to the airport, and CHEAP. IndyGo is just the worst thing ever, and really only exists because it has to.

Yeah, TARC may be okay if you live in one particular walkable neighborhood and your destination is downtown, but it's not leaps and bounds better than any other mid-sized city. Some of the main questions I ask when reviewing a public transit system (and I use public transit quite often when I travel, which is also quite often):

1) How easy is it to get from the airport to the major business districts? Transfers involved? Multiple xfers?
2) How often do buses come?
3) Are they on time (reliable?)
4) Can I get from walkable areas TO the airport directly or am I better off taking Uber/Lyft/taxi?

For a mid-sized city, a 20-25 minute interval between buses is really the max you can have and still be marginally useful. The #2 bus from SDF to downtown runs every 35 minutes during the week, but it's over an hour on weekends, which is generally when most people who use the bus for travel purposes would go to/from the airport. The bus right now seems to be used by workers at the airport who live downtown, and using Uber/Lyft/taxi is likely the most convenient (especially with Uber/Lyft being so cheap in Louisville).

I used the Lynx bus in Orlando to get to the airport at least once a month when I lived there. It's not the greatest bus system either, but it was very convenient to/from the airport for me and was only $2 each way.

If you need a cheap car to get around Louisville, then you don't need the bus because you don't have parking issues in Louisville (cost or availability). That's kinda the point. You may find a few routes of the bus system that work well for certain commute types, but finding a few needles in a haystack is called a statistical aberration, not a "good" system. I wouldn't even call SF a good system, and it's a major metro city. They just have a ton of riders because they HAVE to use it.

I'm an analyst as my FT job. I get paid to be objective and think of all possibilities. You're entitled to your opinion, but I am also entitled to voice my own as a contradictory argument of your opinion. I respect your contribution to this board and wish we had more people like you bringing business to the city, I just think some statements need a bit more realism to set proper expectations, that's all.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:46 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,196,957 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
Makes you wonder about what? Sorry for derailing a thread, but it seems like we're not allowed to disagree with your opinions, when your opinions appear to be a minority opinion. I've personally experienced Portland transit, along with SF, NYC, Chicago, Buffalo, Indy and Orlando (among many others, but those are the ones I've used the most) and it is WORLDS ahead of TARC, and not just because of the light rail. We used light rail in Seattle a few weekends ago and it was easy to get from downtown to the airport, and CHEAP. IndyGo is just the worst thing ever, and really only exists because it has to.

Yeah, TARC may be okay if you live in one particular walkable neighborhood and your destination is downtown, but it's not leaps and bounds better than any other mid-sized city. Some of the main questions I ask when reviewing a public transit system (and I use public transit quite often when I travel, which is also quite often):

1) How easy is it to get from the airport to the major business districts? Transfers involved? Multiple xfers?
2) How often do buses come?
3) Are they on time (reliable?)
4) Can I get from walkable areas TO the airport directly or am I better off taking Uber/Lyft/taxi?

For a mid-sized city, a 20-25 minute interval between buses is really the max you can have and still be marginally useful. The #2 bus from SDF to downtown runs every 35 minutes during the week, but it's over an hour on weekends, which is generally when most people who use the bus for travel purposes would go to/from the airport. The bus right now seems to be used by workers at the airport who live downtown, and using Uber/Lyft/taxi is likely the most convenient (especially with Uber/Lyft being so cheap in Louisville).

I used the Lynx bus in Orlando to get to the airport at least once a month when I lived there. It's not the greatest bus system either, but it was very convenient to/from the airport for me and was only $2 each way.

If you need a cheap car to get around Louisville, then you don't need the bus because you don't have parking issues in Louisville (cost or availability). That's kinda the point. You may find a few routes of the bus system that work well for certain commute types, but finding a few needles in a haystack is called a statistical aberration, not a "good" system. I wouldn't even call SF a good system, and it's a major metro city. They just have a ton of riders because they HAVE to use it.

I'm an analyst as my FT job. I get paid to be objective and think of all possibilities. You're entitled to your opinion, but I am also entitled to voice my own as a contradictory argument of your opinion. I respect your contribution to this board and wish we had more people like you bringing business to the city, I just think some statements need a bit more realism to set proper expectations, that's all.

Besides Portland, Salt Lake City, and Colorado Springs, I am not sure of many mid sized cities with decent transit. I agree with you Tarc is average......but there are hardly any cities in Louisvilles size class with "notably" better transit. They all suck! New Orleans maybe? Orlando's Lynx is a nightmare. Ever ridden sunrail? Louisville 's advantage is compact size; its half the geographical size of most metros in its size range so its urban areas are servicable with Tarc. No mid sized city in the SE has good transit. Heck no SE city period does. The "best" system in the SE is Marta and they call it "Murta" in ATL. Very few ppl of any means take it thus nightmare traffic.

You will just have to trust I know what I am talking about here. I live in Prospect. You grew up there. Unless you are an anomaly, I've never seen a single kid from Prospect who even knew where bus stops are.

What you are not seeing is we agree transit in Louisville is not good...bit transit in America is not good outside Chicago and a half dozen large coastal metros. Try getting around Houston using transit!
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:22 PM
 
Location: IL/IN/FL/CA/KY/FL
1,129 posts, read 803,201 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Besides Portland, Salt Lake City, and Colorado Springs, I am not sure of many mid sized cities with decent transit. I agree with you Tarc is average......but there are hardly any cities in Louisvilles size class with "notably" better transit. They all suck! New Orleans maybe? Orlando's Lynx is a nightmare. Ever ridden sunrail? Louisville 's advantage is compact size; its half the geographical size of most metros in its size range so its urban areas are servicable with Tarc. No mid sized city in the SE has good transit. Heck no SE city period does. The "best" system in the SE is Marta and they call it "Murta" in ATL. Very few ppl of any means take it thus nightmare traffic.

You will just have to trust I know what I am talking about here. I live in Prospect. You grew up there. Unless you are an anomaly, I've never seen a single kid from Prospect who even knew where bus stops are.

What you are not seeing is we agree transit in Louisville is not good...bit transit in America is not good outside Chicago and a half dozen large coastal metros. Try getting around Houston using transit!
Houston is bad, no doubt and pretty much Dallas or anywhere in TX too (Austin may be the exception, but I have no personal experience with Austin). I rode MARTA when the Cards were in the Final Four in 2013 and thought it was great, but it didn't really go to the more affluent suburbs. We took it from the airport hotel to downtown, even though it was in a poor area, it was fine, but it might have just been due to the event that weekend that made it safer. Who knows. Miami's Tri-Rail is actually pretty useful, but doesn't cover enough ground to be the optimal choice all the time.

Sunrail was just getting off the ground as we were leaving for CA so I haven't used it, but my boss has and said it's pretty good for what it is now. My corporate office is still in the Heathrow area of Orlando, so I talk to my coworkers there often. They use Sunrail to get from the suburbs to downtown for Magic games and the new soccer stadium, but it still has a ways to go. It doesn't go to the airport and that really hinders this initial phase. Once they get sunrail to MCO, then I can guarantee it will be used more often.

Minneapolis has light rail too, and they seem to have gotten it right from all my relatives who live there.

I actually took the TARC from Prospect to downtown when I was going to school at St Francis, every day at age 15. It looks like they modified the route slightly, but it was called the Market St #15 bus back then. I then used the Toonerville to get around Theater Square to the Galleria for lunches and meeting up with people. I used it again when I went to JCC and U of L, but less frequently since I had a working car (most of the time) by then. I'm probably an exception to the rule when it comes to knowledge of TARC in Prospect.
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
5,817 posts, read 6,362,869 times
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Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
Houston is bad, no doubt and pretty much Dallas or anywhere in TX too (Austin may be the exception, but I have no personal experience with Austin). I rode MARTA when the Cards were in
the Final Four in 2013 and thought it was great, but it didn't really go to the more affluent suburbs. We took it from the airport hotel to downtown, even though it was in a poor area, it was fine, but it might have just been due to the event that weekend that made it safer. Who knows. Miami's Tri-Rail is actually pretty useful, but doesn't cover enough ground to be the optimal choice all the time.

Sunrail was just getting off the ground as we were leaving for CA so I haven't used it, but my boss has and said it's pretty good for what it is now. My corporate office is still in the Heathrow area of Orlando, so I talk to my coworkers there often. They use Sunrail to get from the suburbs to downtown for Magic games and the new soccer stadium, but it still has a ways to go. It doesn't go to the airport and that really hinders this initial phase. Once they get sunrail to MCO, then I can guarantee it will be used more often.

Minneapolis has light rail too, and they seem to have gotten it right from all my relatives who live there.

I actually took the TARC from Prospect to downtown when I was going to school at St Francis, every day at age 15. It looks like they modified the route slightly, but it was called the Market St #15 bus back then. I then used the Toonerville to get around Theater Square to the Galleria for lunches and meeting up with people. I used it again when I went to JCC and U of L, but less frequently since I had a working car (most of the time) by then. I'm probably an exception to the rule when it comes to knowledge of TARC in Prospect.
Illuminating discussion! Not an attempt to derail the thread but since I'm here I'll "correct" some misconceptions based on my opinions and experience...

Houston is actually not that bad. And getting much better very quickly. Dallas' light rail is very solid, also in expansion mode, and already connects a number of walkable and desirable areas very conveniently. In both instances they only serve small portions of their respective geographic metro areas, but they deserve some recognition especially in how they've reversed many of the negative trends that had set back the south for so long. I'd definitely grade them both above Austin, both in usability, comprehensiveness, and in successfully attracting TOD. And fwiw, Miami area fits this description as well. Three rail systems already with a fourth (AAF) soon to come.

Orlando's biggest problem is the system's headways and overall hours. They're more or less set up to fail from a ridership standpoint. But TOD has been fairly successful and in Orlando's case it's about the long game. They too will benefit from AAF and have Sunrail expansion in the works. (Although a long-game-only focus is rarely a smart strategy in transit development in the South...you need to plan for each stage to be successful)

MSP has a very impressive network imo. Fixed transit seemed to be very well thought out and executed, and the buses were well-utilized and quite convenient too.

Ok, back to Louisville...
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:03 PM
 
100 posts, read 118,899 times
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Hello,

I read with interest the original post by nomadicheart7 as I too am thinking of moving to Louisville and like that poster I have a car now, but don't plan to in the future. While many of the responses described that public transport is not that accessible/frequent in Louisville, what about other alternatives? I believe Louisville has Uber or Lyft and then there are other models such as Zipcar or car2go (though I am not sure that you have those..)

If someone only needed walkability to weekly needs such as food (doesn't have to be a big grocery store, can be a weekly farmer's market, a deli, a bakery, etc.) and perhaps a drugstore is this possible? If I can get basic needs met, I don't want a car. I would occasionally want to go out to eat or some social event, but figure that's where Uber or the like can supplement walkability or a bus. I don't care about bars or retail shopping, I lead a fairly simple life...I mean between my Kindle and Netflix I have most of what I need at home.

So can someone provide feedback on that? Thank you so much.
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