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Old 11-03-2015, 07:48 AM
 
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Re: "cosmopolitan".

I suppose it depends on what one's own personal definition of this term is (not necessarily the dictionary definition). To me, it means that the overall ambiance is more big-city-like, with more hustle and bustle, plus world-class museums, libraries, symphonies, theatre, and other cultural amenities, including major league sports, fine restaurants, parks, public art (statues, fountains, etc.). It includes good public transportation, ranging from taxis to buses to subways to railroads to airports, good schools, both public and private, from preschool to university level, and also implies an educated and cultured population, or at least a significant portion of that population, in decision-making positions.

It has nothing to do with charm, friendliness of the residents, religion (other than perhaps having large, historic and beautiful houses of worship), ethnic background, etc. It is an elusive term to define, as different people use it differently.

I stand by my original premise: Louisville is hands-down the more friendly, more welcoming, more charming, warmer city - but Cincinnati is the more cosmopolitan. That does not mean that Louisville lacks many of the above qualities - but Cincinnati has a big-city feel which is not found in Louisville (thankfully!)
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:06 PM
 
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I agree Cincinnati is more cosmopolitan. It looks pretty good too, hilly topography makes it pop more. More different kinds of neighborhoods, more amenities. Bigger in any sense. It's really a diamond in the rough.

Louisville's a big city in the numbers (600.000 people within city limits), but small in execution. It lacks a decent downtown, it lacks urban vibrancy, should you care about that. But Louisville has great suburban neighborhoods, is easy to get around with a car, and has some great intangibles that give it flavor (derby, bourbon, belle, hillbillies :P).

So yes, if you dislike Cincinnati, IMO it doesn't follow you'd dislike Louisville. Depending on what you look for, you might like it less (if you want more pizzaz from your cities), or you would like it more (if you like your cities more low-key).
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:33 PM
 
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I moved to Louisville from LA and have friends from NKY and Cincinnati. The Louisville locals always seem to be friendlier, more down to earth, and quite surprisingly much more liberal.

For how much bigger the Cincy MSA is, I think it doesn't offer much more unless you like the more high end designer stores. Louisville has the better food scene, more attractive people, friendlier people, cheaper COL, and from what it DID look like, a brighter future. So much revitalization downtown. The Highlands has to be one of the coolest neighborhoods around. I guess it could be compared to Mt. Adams and blows it out the water. But, with how this election just turned out tonight, I'm not so sure how Louisville's future will be going.

Even still, as a gay liberal Jew, I prefer Louisville or Cincy. I think they're similar enough that if you seek the similarities, they're obvious. However, if you seek the differences, they're also obvious enough to easily prefer one over the other. Another important factor is that even while Cincy is building up its downtown as well, literally every single person I know from NKY or Cincy is a total suburbia lover and would never consider living in a downtown. Meanwhile, I know plenty of people in Louisville who can't wait to move downtown once a lot of the new projects open up and when they start earning enough money to afford the rent at them. I think that's a huge cultural difference.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
I moved to Louisville from LA and have friends from NKY and Cincinnati. The Louisville locals always seem to be friendlier, more down to earth, and quite surprisingly much more liberal.

For how much bigger the Cincy MSA is, I think it doesn't offer much more unless you like the more high end designer stores. Louisville has the better food scene, more attractive people, friendlier people, cheaper COL, and from what it DID look like, a brighter future. So much revitalization downtown. The Highlands has to be one of the coolest neighborhoods around. I guess it could be compared to Mt. Adams and blows it out the water. But, with how this election just turned out tonight, I'm not so sure how Louisville's future will be going.

Even still, as a gay liberal Jew, I prefer Louisville or Cincy. I think they're similar enough that if you seek the similarities, they're obvious. However, if you seek the differences, they're also obvious enough to easily prefer one over the other. Another important factor is that even while Cincy is building up its downtown as well, literally every single person I know from NKY or Cincy is a total suburbia lover and would never consider living in a downtown. Meanwhile, I know plenty of people in Louisville who can't wait to move downtown once a lot of the new projects open up and when they start earning enough money to afford the rent at them. I think that's a huge cultural difference.
This. There is NO WAY Cincy feels like a big city, even though the MSA is substantially bigger. I don't visit Cincy and think "Man I am in a big city compared to Louisville."
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Re: "cosmopolitan".

I suppose it depends on what one's own personal definition of this term is (not necessarily the dictionary definition). To me, it means that the overall ambiance is more big-city-like, with more hustle and bustle, plus world-class museums, libraries, symphonies, theatre, and other cultural amenities, including major league sports, fine restaurants, parks, public art (statues, fountains, etc.). It includes good public transportation, ranging from taxis to buses to subways to railroads to airports, good schools, both public and private, from preschool to university level, and also implies an educated and cultured population, or at least a significant portion of that population, in decision-making positions.


The problem is...Louisville has exactly every single thing you list but pro sports. But its college team draws like pro sports. So then what? I would actually say Louisville is more vibrant, more hustle and bustle. The bars are open later and its more vibrant restaurants and arts scene makes it feel more alive. You see, I have lived in both cities and still travel to Cincy monthly so I can speak very well to this.

Part of that is that indeed, the urban core is around half the size of that in Cincy. Both cities have crappy transit. A few miles of a streetcar opening in Cincy does not make their transit superior. Ditto for the airport. Both airports are pretty lame as mid to major cities go.
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Old 11-04-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: IL/IN/FL/CA/KY/FL
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Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
The problem is...Louisville has exactly every single thing you list but pro sports. But its college team draws like pro sports. So then what? I would actually say Louisville is more vibrant, more hustle and bustle. The bars are open later and its more vibrant restaurants and arts scene makes it feel more alive. You see, I have lived in both cities and still travel to Cincy monthly so I can speak very well to this.

Part of that is that indeed, the urban core is around half the size of that in Cincy. Both cities have crappy transit. A few miles of a streetcar opening in Cincy does not make their transit superior. Ditto for the airport. Both airports are pretty lame as mid to major cities go.
Louisville doesn't have passenger rail that I know of. CVG has gotten more lame now that Delta de-hubbed it, but it is still slightly better than SDF.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
Louisville doesn't have passenger rail that I know of. CVG has gotten more lame now that Delta de-hubbed it, but it is still slightly better than SDF.
It's quite a stretch to call a streetcar passenger rail. They are much better performing than buses though. The Cinci streetcar headways do beat out any TARC bus route that I know of though. It's not the savor some in Cincinnati think it is, it's nothing more than a slightly below ok route (which sadly by American terms is fantastic on a relative scale).

I big reason Cincinnati feels more urban to me is the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. You don't see nearly the amount of vacant lots found in Louisville's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. I'm not sure if Louisville has a vibrant, urban area like Fountain Square. Maybe 4th St Live or the riverfront park would be the closest thing? Cincinnati to me has more urban street life and mixed use buildings than Louisville, although Louisville does seem to be catching up. The large physical size of Louisville's CBD has always made it difficult to build the type of good density needed for real urban vibrancy. Cincinnati's hills kind of force it to urbanize to a larger extent around downtown.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:39 PM
 
Location: IL/IN/FL/CA/KY/FL
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Originally Posted by Kevin1813 View Post
It's quite a stretch to call a streetcar passenger rail. They are much better performing than buses though. The Cinci streetcar headways do beat out any TARC bus route that I know of though. It's not the savor some in Cincinnati think it is, it's nothing more than a slightly below ok route (which sadly by American terms is fantastic on a relative scale).

I big reason Cincinnati feels more urban to me is the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. You don't see nearly the amount of vacant lots found in Louisville's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. I'm not sure if Louisville has a vibrant, urban area like Fountain Square. Maybe 4th St Live or the riverfront park would be the closest thing? Cincinnati to me has more urban street life and mixed use buildings than Louisville, although Louisville does seem to be catching up. The large physical size of Louisville's CBD has always made it difficult to build the type of good density needed for real urban vibrancy. Cincinnati's hills kind of force it to urbanize to a larger extent around downtown.
They have an Amtrak station - it has nothing to do with the streetcar.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ServoMiff View Post
Louisville doesn't have passenger rail that I know of. CVG has gotten more lame now that Delta de-hubbed it, but it is still slightly better than SDF.
Neither does Cincy...He was explaining why Cincy felt like a "big city" compared to Louisville. I am just not buying it bc Louisville has very nearly every amenity as Cincy with pro sports being the major exception (one could argue Louisville has major and winning college sports whereas Cincy college sports are mid major and not significant).
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kevin1813 View Post
It's quite a stretch to call a streetcar passenger rail. They are much better performing than buses though. The Cinci streetcar headways do beat out any TARC bus route that I know of though. It's not the savor some in Cincinnati think it is, it's nothing more than a slightly below ok route (which sadly by American terms is fantastic on a relative scale).

I big reason Cincinnati feels more urban to me is the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. You don't see nearly the amount of vacant lots found in Louisville's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. I'm not sure if Louisville has a vibrant, urban area like Fountain Square. Maybe 4th St Live or the riverfront park would be the closest thing? Cincinnati to me has more urban street life and mixed use buildings than Louisville, although Louisville does seem to be catching up. The large physical size of Louisville's CBD has always made it difficult to build the type of good density needed for real urban vibrancy. Cincinnati's hills kind of force it to urbanize to a larger extent around downtown.
This is a good analysis...also...cincy just didn't tear down as much....did you see the post that showed Louisville had areas that looked like Over the rhine? or mt adams? or price hill? In Louisville it was lost to flooding, the 1890 tornado, and urban renwal. Look at those old photos to realize not only did louisville tear down around 25 buildings over 10 stories, but it tore down HUNDREDS of 3-4 story urban vernacular buildings and two story row houses. Chances are it wasn't quite as big as Over the Rhine, but it wasn't far behind.

The reason Louisville feels "cleaner?" There is really very little blight left in the city outside the west end. I am not exaggerating or kidding when I say75% of the blocks in the CBD has something under construction, proposed, or both. Many are rehabs. Several projects are proposed or being built on surface lots...there are still acres of surface lots which need development.

I still think Louisville's urban neighborhoods (you have to count Jeff and New Albany here) are just as strong as any in the interior eastern US. Not many metros under 2 million will you find a Highlands much less that massive awesomeness combined with many other areas, Nulu, Butchertown, Clifton, Crescent Hill, Germantown, Old Louisville, New Albany, Jeff, heart of St matthews, and now, even Portland, Smoketown, and Shelby Park are slowly but surely seeing some action. A recent drive through Shelby Park...while it is still not the best area, I was totally surprised at the homes flipping and rehabs there.
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