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Old 05-04-2016, 12:43 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
9,560 posts, read 13,407,544 times
Reputation: 20115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
You don't know how long I've been alive. I've been all over the South and see no Southern traits in St. Louis whatsoever. I know you think St. Louis is Southern but you're mistaken.
And people from the heart of the midwest will tell you that you are mistaken and there are southern traits.
It's like you think there is a solid line that divides 'southern' from 'midwestern' and that St Louis falls completely outside 'southern', but it doesn't and there are a lot of places like that. It's not a solid dividing line, it's a fluid transition zone with cities on either edge. St Louis may be a shade more midwestern than Louisville, but both cities are in that transition zone

 
Old 05-04-2016, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,928 posts, read 6,864,611 times
Reputation: 6673
Wasn't Missouri a slave state?
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
135 posts, read 121,131 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
The recent protesters in Marion, In all sounded southern to me. Listen closely, (not to Ted Cruz, we know where he's from) does anyone else agree or disagree?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrFaceZdGkA
If you listen until the end, the main protester speaking the whole time said he came to Marion from Ohio to protest...

Also, Marion has a VERY large population of 2nd,3rd, and 4th generation Kentuckians who came up to work in the factories. This is discussed in depth in Cynthia Carr's fascinating, yet disturbing book, "Our Town", which examines the racial dynamics in the city stemming from the lynching that took place in Marion in August of 1930.

I'm really not sure why you brought a video from a North Central Indiana city into a discussion about whether or not Louisville is Southern though. Even for you, that's pretty off base. Well, not even for you I guess...
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: South Austin, 78745
2,604 posts, read 1,759,985 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Wasn't Missouri a slave state?
Yes it was a slave state. And it was a border state. St. Louis had slaves. Missouri had legal segregated public schools until the 1950's or there abouts, blacks had to go to the back of the bus in Missouri, and I assume separate water fountains up until the 1950's or 60's. Missouri has a star on the Confederate flag. Despite all of that, Missouri still has never been a part of the South.

Back during the 1850's, Missouri was probably considered a Western State more than any other region. I doubt if the word "Midwest" was used as the name of a region of the United States in the mid 1800's.

Most people outside of Missouri was never taught in school or ever thought of Missouri as anything but a Midwestern State, but most everybody knows a lot of people from Kentucky, Arkansas, and Tennessee settled in the Bootheel and Ozarks area of Missouri. But it's still Midwestern state. On the map it doesn't even look like it's in the South.
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:26 PM
 
6,306 posts, read 13,214,788 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
And people from the heart of the midwest will tell you that you are mistaken and there are southern traits.
It's like you think there is a solid line that divides 'southern' from 'midwestern' and that St Louis falls completely outside 'southern', but it doesn't and there are a lot of places like that. It's not a solid dividing line, it's a fluid transition zone with cities on either edge. St Louis may be a shade more midwestern than Louisville, but both cities are in that transition zone
Excellent analysis. Louisville is about 40-50% southern. As it gains more and more transplants, especially from OH and MI, which are moving in by the droves, this culture is rapidly changing. You will see much more evidence of this by census 2020. Every few years we see cities misrepresented by estimates, and it is not until the decade census that things are straightened out. You can just "feel" the growth in the air, the traffic, the buildings and cranes, etc. In St Louis? Not so much.

To be honest, I wish, to a degree, Louisville was grouped more with the south. If that were the case, and it was in a better state, mainly a no income tax right to work state like TN...it would not only be growing like it is now, but booming like Nashville.
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,111,491 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Cincinnati might be out of the Southern dialect region, but it's still not all that unusual to hear a KY accent in Cincinnati. It's really not. Its the same with Indianapolis, especially the southside. I understand you have your statistics and all, but just visit there, get out there and go to the places where blue collar white people might congregate, places like bowling alleys and restaraunts and bars, grocery stores, wal-mart, flea markets, garage sales, etc. I'm pretty sure you'll hear a few Kentucky accents, and more accents that are "sort've" Southern. They sound more like Kentucky than they sound like Northern Indiana, Michigan, and Chicago.

My solid source is my own personal experiences.
That accent still isn't the native accent to those cities like it is in Louisville. Indianapolis and Cincinnati are in a different region than Louisville. The former two are Midwestern, the latter one is Southern.
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,111,491 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Yes it was a slave state. And it was a border state. St. Louis had slaves. Missouri had legal segregated public schools until the 1950's or there abouts, blacks had to go to the back of the bus in Missouri, and I assume separate water fountains up until the 1950's or 60's. Missouri has a star on the Confederate flag. Despite all of that, Missouri still has never been a part of the South.

Back during the 1850's, Missouri was probably considered a Western State more than any other region. I doubt if the word "Midwest" was used as the name of a region of the United States in the mid 1800's.

Most people outside of Missouri was never taught in school or ever thought of Missouri as anything but a Midwestern State, but most everybody knows a lot of people from Kentucky, Arkansas, and Tennessee settled in the Bootheel and Ozarks area of Missouri. But it's still Midwestern state. On the map it doesn't even look like it's in the South.
Missouri never segregated on buses and water fountains. That's a flat out lie. The only legally mandated segregation was in schools, and even that was already in the process of being phased out by the time Brown vs. Board hit. School segregation occurred in Indiana and Kansas as well and those states aren't the South. Missouri's star on the Confederate Flag is illegitimate. The state supported the Union over the Confederacy by a large margin.

Last edited by U146; 05-04-2016 at 01:45 PM..
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,111,491 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
And people from the heart of the midwest will tell you that you are mistaken and there are southern traits.
It's like you think there is a solid line that divides 'southern' from 'midwestern' and that St Louis falls completely outside 'southern', but it doesn't and there are a lot of places like that. It's not a solid dividing line, it's a fluid transition zone with cities on either edge. St Louis may be a shade more midwestern than Louisville, but both cities are in that transition zone
Yet you have failed to name any Southern traits this whole time. You're the only one I've met from the heart of the Midwest that has said St. Louis had southern traits. St. Louis is FAR more Midwestern than Louisville and is not in the transition zone at all. St. Louis has more in common with Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, even Minneapolis than Louisville from a modern standpoint. Where are you pulling these ideas from? St. Louis is a solidly Midwestern city and is not Southern. It lies well outside of the Southern dialect range, it is culturally Midwestern, it is demographically Midwestern, etc. It's your opinion that St. Louis has southern traits, and your opinion is wrong. Dead wrong.

Last edited by U146; 05-04-2016 at 02:03 PM..
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:38 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,599 posts, read 20,512,817 times
Reputation: 9087
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Wasn't Missouri a slave state?
Nearly every state North or South had slavery, Northern states banned slavery sooner. African slaves arrived in New York City in 1626, where slave auctions were commonplace. There were also thousands of Native American female sex slaves held in California until 1865.
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,111,491 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Excellent analysis. Louisville is about 40-50% southern. As it gains more and more transplants, especially from OH and MI, which are moving in by the droves, this culture is rapidly changing. You will see much more evidence of this by census 2020. Every few years we see cities misrepresented by estimates, and it is not until the decade census that things are straightened out. You can just "feel" the growth in the air, the traffic, the buildings and cranes, etc. In St Louis? Not so much.

To be honest, I wish, to a degree, Louisville was grouped more with the south. If that were the case, and it was in a better state, mainly a no income tax right to work state like TN...it would not only be growing like it is now, but booming like Nashville.
Louisville is a lot more than 40-50% Southern. Try 70%-80%. Louisville is not part of the Midwest. It is Southern in dialect, culture, history, etc. I know how badly you want Louisville to be Midwestern, but Midwesterners like me and many others in this thread have continuously told you it's Southern and you refuse to change your tune. You are pretty much alone in your opinion. Congratulations on your failure.
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