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Old 05-02-2016, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,209,012 times
Reputation: 846

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Great analysis. Heres the skinny: There are lots of folks, mainly from declining rust belt cities, who feel threatened by Louisville and cities like it. Specifically, they hate my enthusiasm and promoting the city. So they try their best to make Louisville loom like a "small southern town." Well, it is not working as Louisville keeps developing at record pace. Just look at a suburb like New Albany.

This guy U is from St Louis and jealous of Louisville's growth and success. So he trolls against it. You cannot reason with him, even with insurmountable data
I'm not jealous of Louisville's growth and success. Louisville still has eons to go before it can even compete with the likes of St. Louis or Cincinnati. It is nothing compared to those two cities or any other city in the Midwest. No professional sports teams, no critically acclaimed orchestras, zoos, or museums, all it has is the Kentucky Derby, and college and minor league sports. I'm not at all jealous of Louisville and would never want to live there EVER.

 
Old 05-02-2016, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,209,012 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
There are two topics here: one is whether Louisville was pro Union or pro Confederate during the Civil War and whether the Confederate monument should be removed, the other is whether Louisville is today culturally Southern or Midwestern.


One the first point Louisville and most of Kentucky was overwhelmingly pro Union with some Confederate supporters. The only places in Kentucky with majorities supporting the CSA was around Lexington and in the Southwest part of the state. The rest of the state, including Louisville, was mostly pro Union. A Confederate monument in a city that was 80/20 Union makes no sense and is in bad taste as it glorifies a cause that would have kept the ancestors of 25% of Louisvillians slaves for decades longer. I believe all Confederate monuments or statues on public property should be placed in the care of a private trust paid for by people who aren't offended by them.


On the second point Louisville is in a region that is clearly a transition zone from the Deep South to Great Lakes regions. Louisville is very different from both the UP of Michigan and South Alabama but clearly has some traits from both regions. To me it's splitting hairs to argue over whether Louisville is 60/40 one way or the other, especially since regional differences are decreasing with mass media and national chain restaurants. I just got back on a trip to the Gulf Coast region and compared to down there Louisville feels Midwestern. But when I got back from visiting the Great Lakes region last September Louisville felt Southern.
Louisville has more in common with Alabama than the UP of Michigan. Louisville isn't Great Lakes at all. It is the Upper South.
 
Old 05-02-2016, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,209,012 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Louisville feels and sounds more like Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Indianapolis than it feels and sounds like Birmingham, Memphis, Jackson and New Orleans.
You're clearly living on another planet and I think you're just out to disagree with me on everything. Louisvillians sound more like the cities you mentioned than Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Indianapolis any day of the week and linguistic maps clearly prove this to be true. I suggest you look at sources before voicing your opinion.
 
Old 05-02-2016, 10:21 PM
 
Location: South Austin, 78745
2,931 posts, read 2,084,839 times
Reputation: 4997
Now that I give it some deeper thought on whether Louisville is Midwestern or Southern, I've come to the conclusion it's all just a state of mind.
 
Old 05-02-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: South Austin, 78745
2,931 posts, read 2,084,839 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
I think you're just out to disagree with me on everything
You think I'm just out to disagree with you on everything? Please. You flatter yourself. I never even heard of you until about 5 or 10 minutes ago. I suggest you chill out and not sweat the small stuff. Its not really that big of a deal which region Louisville is in. Thats considered the "small stuff". Not everything is all about you. Go smoke some weed, or something. You'll feel better, I promise you will.
 
Old 05-03-2016, 04:36 AM
 
3,908 posts, read 3,429,662 times
Reputation: 6240
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/op...rica.html?_r=1

Here's a NYT article showing how the US should align regionally from a couple different standpoints. One might consider not clicking on that link or taking a xanax before looking at it. (For those of us who are in the militant Louisville is ONLY southern camp.)
 
Old 05-03-2016, 05:55 AM
 
6,545 posts, read 13,680,404 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Peter, I am a Louisville native and a long-time Lexington resident. I think the problem you note originates not with others' feeling threatened by Louisville's success, or by your enthusiasm for Louisville, but that you very frequently voice that enthusiasm by unnecessarily putting down other cities and their citizens, as you just did in this quote, terming other places "declining rust belt cities" and their citizens "jealous...and...threatened', etc.".

It should be possible to note, support, and promote Louisville's many fine qualities and economic successes without continually putting down and negatively comparing other cities and their people to Louisville, or by ascribing any differences of opinion re. Louisville to jealousy and feelings of inferiority in non-Louisvillians. Doing this only irritates others and does not win anyone over to your viewpoint.

One more thing: "small" is not a synonym for "Southern", when it comes to cities and/or towns...
I only speak the truth Craig. There is no put downs. These guys can dish opinions, but cannot take it. I speak opinions just like they do. My conversations are always civil. "declining rust belt towns" is not a put down but a statistical fact for places losing jobs, and that have high crime and most importantly, population loss. U146 has been trolling against Louisville for while. He seems to think making it look like an "insignificant" southern town will bolster his opinions of other "superior" cities. He is entitled to his opinion. I am entitled to mine. Besides, I didn't coin the term "declining rustbelt."

The fact is, most of Missouri is just as southern as much of KY

http://wfpl.org/can-dialect-maps-tel...or-midwestern/

This euphemism has been used to refer to these cities for decades:

Geography of Poverty Northeast | msnbc


Incidentally, Louisville also fits that rustbelt description, to a very small degree, and this is only part of what makes it a Midwest city. That and its factories, unions, large Catholic and substantial Jewish population (historically speaking), massive German and Irish immigrations in the 19th century and cultural institutions which are much different from the south. But it is also an unabashedly southern city that loves bourbon and whiskey, and eats grits and drinks sweet tea. Its a total mix. I still argue most of the "southern" culture is from transplants from rural KY, WV, etc.

In fact, the "cultural and linguistic" characteristics that many novices or once or twice visitors like U146 are picking up on in Louisville are not actually southern but OHIO RIVER valley. This is a dialect that has developed in these low lying river bed towns along, the ohio river, and it is not just in KY, but also S. IN, and even parts of SW OH, and S. IL.

Last edited by Peter1948; 05-03-2016 at 06:05 AM..
 
Old 05-03-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,217 posts, read 17,238,764 times
Reputation: 27081
I think Louisville is more Southern than not, but something important to remember is that Ohio River valley accent, though slightly Southern, is really "country." Country/rural doesn't equal Southern.
 
Old 05-03-2016, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,209,012 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
I only speak the truth Craig. There is no put downs. These guys can dish opinions, but cannot take it. I speak opinions just like they do. My conversations are always civil. "declining rust belt towns" is not a put down but a statistical fact for places losing jobs, and that have high crime and most importantly, population loss. U146 has been trolling against Louisville for while. He seems to think making it look like an "insignificant" southern town will bolster his opinions of other "superior" cities. He is entitled to his opinion. I am entitled to mine. Besides, I didn't coin the term "declining rustbelt."

The fact is, most of Missouri is just as southern as much of KY

Can Dialect Maps Tell if Kentucky is More Southern or Midwestern? - 89.3 WFPL

This euphemism has been used to refer to these cities for decades:

Geography of Poverty Northeast | msnbc


Incidentally, Louisville also fits that rustbelt description, to a very small degree, and this is only part of what makes it a Midwest city. That and its factories, unions, large Catholic and substantial Jewish population (historically speaking), massive German and Irish immigrations in the 19th century and cultural institutions which are much different from the south. But it is also an unabashedly southern city that loves bourbon and whiskey, and eats grits and drinks sweet tea. Its a total mix. I still argue most of the "southern" culture is from transplants from rural KY, WV, etc.

In fact, the "cultural and linguistic" characteristics that many novices or once or twice visitors like U146 are picking up on in Louisville are not actually southern but OHIO RIVER valley. This is a dialect that has developed in these low lying river bed towns along, the ohio river, and it is not just in KY, but also S. IN, and even parts of SW OH, and S. IL.
No, that's not a fact. The majority of Missouri is Midwestern with only a small component of it being as Southern as Kentucky. You've clearly never been to Missouri. The cultural and linguistics characteristics are in fact Southern...they are classified as such by the likes of University of Pennsylvania, etc. You just won't admit Louisville is Southern and I'm tired of you trying to make St. Louis and Missouri out to be as Southern as Kentucky to make it seem less Southern. THat is a bald faced lie. You don't speak the truth at all. You only speak your dished out opinions because you are afraid of everything and anything Southern. Period. I will give that Louisville has Midwestern influences but it is not a full-blown Midwestern city nor is it a hybrid. The real yardstick is how does it compare to Chicago, the capital of the Midwest, vs. Atlanta, capital of the South. The fact is that Louisville culturally and linguistically has much more in common with Atlanta than it does with Chicago. Cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis by contrast have much more in common with Chicago than with any city in the South. Louisville fails this test.

Last edited by U146; 05-03-2016 at 10:13 AM..
 
Old 05-03-2016, 10:58 AM
 
3,908 posts, read 3,429,662 times
Reputation: 6240
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
No, that's not a fact. The majority of Missouri is Midwestern with only a small component of it being as Southern as Kentucky. You've clearly never been to Missouri. The cultural and linguistics characteristics are in fact Southern...they are classified as such by the likes of University of Pennsylvania, etc. You just won't admit Louisville is Southern and I'm tired of you trying to make St. Louis and Missouri out to be as Southern as Kentucky to make it seem less Southern. THat is a bald faced lie. You don't speak the truth at all. You only speak your dished out opinions because you are afraid of everything and anything Southern. Period. I will give that Louisville has Midwestern influences but it is not a full-blown Midwestern city nor is it a hybrid. The real yardstick is how does it compare to Chicago, the capital of the Midwest, vs. Atlanta, capital of the South. The fact is that Louisville culturally and linguistically has much more in common with Atlanta than it does with Chicago. Cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis by contrast have much more in common with Chicago than with any city in the South. Louisville fails this test.
I'm not trying to debate your southern city stance, but as river cities I feel Louisville is quite a bit more culturally similar to Cincinnati than it is to Atlanta. From manufacturing, to architecture, or the midland southern accents present in both. I don't know if Cinci is a good example of a Midwestern city in this case, it has evidence of both as well.
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