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Old 01-18-2017, 07:50 PM
 
6,296 posts, read 13,179,782 times
Reputation: 2789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Downtown is actually doing quite well. The new Omni Hotel is opening. 800 Tower Apartments are completely remodeled. Vue at 3rd is all remodeled apartments. NuLu is seeing a lot of development and new restaurants opening with new apartment complexes planned. Several other new hotels going up all over. The high concentration of shotgun houses in the inner neighborhoods like Germantown, Schnitzelburg, Shelby Park, etc. is drawing a lot of younger homeowners to the area. A few old buildings like mills being reconverted into lofts. Whiskey Row is still being built. UPS, I'm pretty sure I remember reading, is planning on expanding its shipping out of SDF even more. The Louisville FC is a newly founded soccer club. Distilleries are coming back to the city proper and are great for tourism all over the city. Downtown is seeing several new restaurants and local businesses. For what it's worth, Guy Fieri opened a restaurant at 4th Street Live. Not a fan of 4th Street or Guy. But a world famous chef would not open a restaurant in a failed, dumpy city.

For its size, Louisville has a lot of development going on. For how lackluster downtown is...because of what happened decades ago...it's coming back pretty strong. Developers would not be doing million dollar conversions of large apartment complexes if they didn't see promise in the city. Omni would not open a hotel in a failed city.

Judging Louisville as a failure for a high crime rate is just absolutely moronic. Crime is going up nationwide. Don't blame Louisville or Detroit or Chicago or Dayton or wherever for the rising crime rates. I don't need to start a political debate here, but drugs and guns are the issue. LA's crime rate rose also. Tons of cities are seeing crime increases for the first time in a long time. It's a national trend. So saying Louisville failed because the West End is still poor and dangerous forces you to ignore national trends that Louisville just happens to be a part of.

The West End's poverty has more to do with easy access to guns, this entire region of the country being the epicenter of a heroin epidemic, and the continued racism at all levels of society (Louisvillians, Kentuckians, and Americans as a whole).

I'm not claiming to be some expert on the merger. All I'm saying is that you make it seem like the old Louisville and inner neighborhoods are just absolute hellholes filled with degenerates, devoid of any economic activity, and lacking any hope. That's simply not true.


Thank you. I am not sure what Tpetty's motivations are but Louisville the city is NOT in a decline. The population los sof the old city has stopped, and besides, urban centers population loss is a NATIONAL trend. The reason? Birth rates have slowed and most city dwellers are single and do not have kids living with them.

Declining cities are cleveland detroit youngstown, even pittsburgh is losing population. NOT Louisville.

Your post doesnt even mention a FRACTION of the development going on! It is too numerous to list. Literally 12 hotels under construction in downtown. Louisville has always been a city of naysayers like Tpetty.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:52 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,584 posts, read 20,464,174 times
Reputation: 9077
West End started declining after the 1937 flood, it had once been a prosperous area. It has major environmental issues: floods and horrible air quality due to Rubbertown. Middle / upper income Whites left from 1937 to the 1968 riots and since then middle / upper income Blacks have moved elsewhere too. The vast majority of people left there are the poorest of the poor. Air quality alone would keep me from living there if it was as safe as Jtown. Cancer rates there are shockingly high.


If anything Louisville's merger changed too little since it is basically an overlay government whose main goal is to have more population than Lexington / Fayette Co. JCPS chaos (unrelated to the 2003 merger) is the biggest thing govt. related holding Louisville back. It scares the best educated new residents into surrounding counties.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:53 PM
 
387 posts, read 341,038 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Thank you. I am not sure what Tpetty's motivations are but Louisville the city is NOT in a decline. The population los sof the old city has stopped, and besides, urban centers population loss is a NATIONAL trend. The reason? Birth rates have slowed and most city dwellers are single and do not have kids living with them.

Declining cities are cleveland detroit youngstown, even pittsburgh is losing population. NOT Louisville.

Your post doesnt even mention a FRACTION of the development going on! It is too numerous to list. Literally 12 hotels under construction in downtown. Louisville has always been a city of naysayers like Tpetty.
If you take into account of the consolidated city of Louisville, then yes it's not declining. But the old city alone is declining still. That's the point I was trying to make.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:23 PM
 
5,620 posts, read 13,304,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
Um revitalization of the downtown area, actually began way before the merger. And if you noticed all those high rises in the downtown area, they were all constructed before the merger. And it is true that the old city has lost population. But like I said before the West End is still a hellhole, and so is some of the East End. Louisville is still as always a mini Detroit. The old city is not fully revitalized. By just going to Google Street View, I saw more hellish neighborhoods than good ones. And like I said before Darryl Owens would clearly defend my assertions over yours.
Yeah I know the high rises were. Just because some high rises were built before it doesn't mean it failed. There was this thing called the Great Recession. Local businesses are still moving in. Omni is still being built. Other complexes and hotels have been built since the merger. The refurbished apartment complexes have been completed only within the past year.

Do you have statistics that show the old city of Louisville population figures? Genuinely curious. Even still, that is not reflective of the merger failing. Urban living has only recently within the past few years been every city's goal. Inner neighborhoods have been losing population in almost every city in the country, except for the obvious ones like SF, LA, NYC, etc.

Yes, the West End is bad. But you're still ignoring why I said it's bad. It's not the merger's fault. It's a national drug and gun epidemic. Many cities in this part of the country are dealing with the horrible realizations of those epidemics.

I never said the old city is fully revitalized. It's on its way now though. Obviously change was not going to happen overnight. Merger was in 2003. You can't expect Louisville to have changed drastically from 2002 to 2004. Just a few years later, the Great Recession set every single back. Since then, Louisville has started to revitalize. Nowhere did I say Louisville is perfect and pristine.

Just because a lot of the inner neighborhoods look bad still doesn't mean the merger is a failure. You're taking anecdotal pieces of evidence and putting it together to create a false narrative. Yes, those neighborhoods are not all nice. That's not indicative of the merger being a failure though. And many of those neighborhoods are in the process of getting better. Old Louisville keeps getting nicer. Downtown. West Main. NuLu. Butchertown. Germantown. Shelby Park. Schitzelburg. Pretty sure I saw some new development in Smoketown is going on.

I really don't understand your logic. You ignore all the new hotels and apartments and businesses all over the inner neighborhoods. You ignore national trends that are not the result of the merger. You ignore the recent revitalization of other neighborhoods between downtown and the Highlands. You're ignoring that many blue collar jobs have stayed relatively safe in Louisville with the manufacturing plants and UPS doing extremely well to the point that they're expanding and basically always hiring. You ignore the ripple effect that downtown Louisville's growth is having on the cities across the river in Indiana even. If downtown Louisville was not becoming a destination and somewhere to actual work/play at, why would Jeffersonville be getting new development downtown?
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:29 PM
 
387 posts, read 341,038 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Yeah I know the high rises were. Just because some high rises were built before it doesn't mean it failed. There was this thing called the Great Recession. Local businesses are still moving in. Omni is still being built. Other complexes and hotels have been built since the merger. The refurbished apartment complexes have been completed only within the past year.

Do you have statistics that show the old city of Louisville population figures? Genuinely curious. Even still, that is not reflective of the merger failing. Urban living has only recently within the past few years been every city's goal. Inner neighborhoods have been losing population in almost every city in the country, except for the obvious ones like SF, LA, NYC, etc.

Yes, the West End is bad. But you're still ignoring why I said it's bad. It's not the merger's fault. It's a national drug and gun epidemic. Many cities in this part of the country are dealing with the horrible realizations of those epidemics.

I never said the old city is fully revitalized. It's on its way now though. Obviously change was not going to happen overnight. Merger was in 2003. You can't expect Louisville to have changed drastically from 2002 to 2004. Just a few years later, the Great Recession set every single back. Since then, Louisville has started to revitalize. Nowhere did I say Louisville is perfect and pristine.

Just because a lot of the inner neighborhoods look bad still doesn't mean the merger is a failure. You're taking anecdotal pieces of evidence and putting it together to create a false narrative. Yes, those neighborhoods are not all nice. That's not indicative of the merger being a failure though. And many of those neighborhoods are in the process of getting better. Old Louisville keeps getting nicer. Downtown. West Main. NuLu. Butchertown. Germantown. Shelby Park. Schitzelburg. Pretty sure I saw some new development in Smoketown is going on.

I really don't understand your logic. You ignore all the new hotels and apartments and businesses all over the inner neighborhoods. You ignore national trends that are not the result of the merger. You ignore the recent revitalization of other neighborhoods between downtown and the Highlands. You're ignoring that many blue collar jobs have stayed relatively safe in Louisville with the manufacturing plants and UPS doing extremely well to the point that they're expanding and basically always hiring. You ignore the ripple effect that downtown Louisville's growth is having on the cities across the river in Indiana even. If downtown Louisville was not becoming a destination and somewhere to actual work/play at, why would Jeffersonville be getting new development downtown?
I'll see what Darryl Owens has to say about this.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:33 PM
 
387 posts, read 341,038 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Yeah I know the high rises were. Just because some high rises were built before it doesn't mean it failed. There was this thing called the Great Recession. Local businesses are still moving in. Omni is still being built. Other complexes and hotels have been built since the merger. The refurbished apartment complexes have been completed only within the past year.

Do you have statistics that show the old city of Louisville population figures? Genuinely curious. Even still, that is not reflective of the merger failing. Urban living has only recently within the past few years been every city's goal. Inner neighborhoods have been losing population in almost every city in the country, except for the obvious ones like SF, LA, NYC, etc.

Yes, the West End is bad. But you're still ignoring why I said it's bad. It's not the merger's fault. It's a national drug and gun epidemic. Many cities in this part of the country are dealing with the horrible realizations of those epidemics.

I never said the old city is fully revitalized. It's on its way now though. Obviously change was not going to happen overnight. Merger was in 2003. You can't expect Louisville to have changed drastically from 2002 to 2004. Just a few years later, the Great Recession set every single back. Since then, Louisville has started to revitalize. Nowhere did I say Louisville is perfect and pristine.

Just because a lot of the inner neighborhoods look bad still doesn't mean the merger is a failure. You're taking anecdotal pieces of evidence and putting it together to create a false narrative. Yes, those neighborhoods are not all nice. That's not indicative of the merger being a failure though. And many of those neighborhoods are in the process of getting better. Old Louisville keeps getting nicer. Downtown. West Main. NuLu. Butchertown. Germantown. Shelby Park. Schitzelburg. Pretty sure I saw some new development in Smoketown is going on.

I really don't understand your logic. You ignore all the new hotels and apartments and businesses all over the inner neighborhoods. You ignore national trends that are not the result of the merger. You ignore the recent revitalization of other neighborhoods between downtown and the Highlands. You're ignoring that many blue collar jobs have stayed relatively safe in Louisville with the manufacturing plants and UPS doing extremely well to the point that they're expanding and basically always hiring. You ignore the ripple effect that downtown Louisville's growth is having on the cities across the river in Indiana even. If downtown Louisville was not becoming a destination and somewhere to actual work/play at, why would Jeffersonville be getting new development downtown?
I suggest you go to Sperlings Best Places and check out all the negative reviews Louisville has gotten.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:52 PM
 
5,620 posts, read 13,304,201 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
I suggest you go to Sperlings Best Places and check out all the negative reviews Louisville has gotten.
I'm reading them now. I can't say I really disagree all that much. Again, however, none of it proves that the merger was a failure. You may not like Louisville. The reviewers might not. I don't love it here. But our personal opinions don't change the fact that the city isn't failing. Also, I give a lot more value to hundreds of million dollars in development, over keyboard warriors. The personal vibe of a city that people write about online is completely irrelevant when developers see huge potential with the city, especially in the older part of the city. Developers and accountants and all that are not stupid people. They see the potential for Louisville. We wouldn't have added hundreds of hotel rooms if it was not becoming a stronger tourist destination. We wouldn't be seeing apartment development in the core neighborhoods if developers didn't think there was potential to improve the neighborhoods. We wouldn't be seeing all the independent and local restaurants/stores/bars opening up in those neighborhoods if they were such terrible places to do business.

Once again, you're ignoring factual data and just spouting your own opinions and anecdotes from individual people, rather than looking at the big picture. The big picture shows that Louisville is doing well. Idk how you can deny that. Find me some evidence because just one man you name over and over again. I bet you I can find one man who will just about anything. There's always a guy to be quoted for some opinion. Everyone has opinions. Real estate development is not an opinion though. Tourism is not an opinion. Population growth is not an opinion.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:57 PM
 
387 posts, read 341,038 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
I'm reading them now. I can't say I really disagree all that much. Again, however, none of it proves that the merger was a failure. You may not like Louisville. The reviewers might not. I don't love it here. But our personal opinions don't change the fact that the city isn't failing. Also, I give a lot more value to hundreds of million dollars in development, over keyboard warriors. The personal vibe of a city that people write about online is completely irrelevant when developers see huge potential with the city, especially in the older part of the city. Developers and accountants and all that are not stupid people. They see the potential for Louisville. We wouldn't have added hundreds of hotel rooms if it was not becoming a stronger tourist destination. We wouldn't be seeing apartment development in the core neighborhoods if developers didn't think there was potential to improve the neighborhoods. We wouldn't be seeing all the independent and local restaurants/stores/bars opening up in those neighborhoods if they were such terrible places to do business.

Once again, you're ignoring factual data and just spouting your own opinions and anecdotes from individual people, rather than looking at the big picture. The big picture shows that Louisville is doing well. Idk how you can deny that. Find me some evidence because just one man you name over and over again. I bet you I can find one man who will just about anything. There's always a guy to be quoted for some opinion. Everyone has opinions. Real estate development is not an opinion though. Tourism is not an opinion. Population growth is not an opinion.
Will as always I still maintain that the merger was a sham. Thanks to that cronie Jerry Abramson.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:00 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,566,194 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
What you are saying is that people should not have the freedom to choose where they want to live and when. Is that correct?
Actually, that's the exact opposite of what he's saying. His stance is anti-zoning. Zoning codes tend to exclude those who can't meet their requirements (generally the poor-if a municipality's code says no apartments, renters can't live there and get the benefits like living close to a job or in a good school district), as certain types of people are "coded out."

So he basically is saying that people should be able to live wherever they want. I have no idea where you extracted the opposite assumption.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:10 AM
 
6,296 posts, read 13,179,782 times
Reputation: 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
I suggest you go to Sperlings Best Places and check out all the negative reviews Louisville has gotten.
Alot of those reviews were written by you! There are about 5 people over the years, operating under different aliases, which have attacked and destroyed Louisville's reputation. These people are prolific haters, and at least one of them I exposed as living in a rival city!
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