Liberty greens a safe area? (Louisville: homes, construction, live)

[tomocox]

It was a broad brush, but with the exception of a limited number of spots such as Butchertown would you agree?

I hope that I am not misunderstood. I want to be wrong. I wish and hope for civilization throughout the entire city, but with the focus of this thread on Liberty Green, I just can't yet recommend the area for raising a family. It would be a wonderful thing for me to be proven wrong over the next several years.

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by tomocox

It was a broad brush, but with the exception of a limited number of spots such as Butchertown would you agree?

I hope that I am not misunderstood. I want to be wrong. I wish and hope for civilization throughout the entire city, but with the focus of this thread on Liberty Green, I just can't yet recommend the area for raising a family. It would be a wonderful thing for me to be proven wrong over the next several years.

Tom, what specifically is so bad about the area surrounding Liberty Green? It is all stable lower class and becoming middle class. Do you object to the St John's Center and Wayside Mission being so close? Those are the only areas that may be "dangerous" (and boy I use that loosely). The area bounded by I-65 on the west, Broadway on the south, Chestnut on the east, and the river on the north is by no means dangerous!!!! Heck, there are muli-million dollar condos already occupied in that area and hundreds more opening by the end of the year. I am sorry but you are off on this one...I hate to see realtors push people away from viable areas due to historical or perceived racial fears (and I am not singling out Tom by any means; I am actually making a statement based on the trend I have seen with many realtors).

[tomocox]

STX, while you may not have intended to "single me out," you have by your words insinuated that I may be a racist and cut to my heart with the wrong message. Your words are mighty harsh even though you discounted them very eloquently and with great appreciation; however, they still hurt. I will protest to the highest levels if you or anyone ever insinuates that I am in anyway racist again! Not once in this entire thread prior to your insinuation was race discussed or an issue.

If you feel Realtors are steering people away, then you are charging them with what is an illegal act punishable by huge fines and even prison. I don't know of any Realtor who would dare risk such penalties by committing such an act although we are routinely asked by clients to violate even the spirit of the law.

My concerns with the area, as I wrote previously, may be totally unfounded, but quite simply, as far as I am concerned, should be considered. The OP writer stated in a reply that he/she is considering living in Liberty Greens with a 14 yrs old child. I simply am not convinced that given a choice I would choose to raise a teenager in the area. Again, I may be totally wrong, but it's a risk I don't want. I hope I am so terribly wrong, but just this once, I will rely on my gut feelings.

[Windwalker]

It's interesting how much perception and historical reputation override actual statistics on what is and is not safe.

I live in a place much like Old Louisville (except my town deliberately built economically diverse housing in its neighborhoods.) We're considered urban homesteaders. Some folks would not tolerate what we take for granted as normal in our neighborhood--graffiti, mentally ill mumbling up and down the streets, young black guys roaming the streets after school (on their way home from school!).

We've raised our two daughters there who now complain of their liberal colleges as being too whitebread. They've learned how to be street savvy and to appreciate many different types of people. I consider this an asset to living in our area.

But many people, due to past experiences or ignorance, wouldn't. I understand this and don't condemn anyone. Choosing a place to live that feels safe to you and your unique needs is something that's very personal, and there are laws to make sure all folks can do just that--unless they perceive the lack of welcome and downright hostility.

All of which raises a fun little philosophical question: is perception reality? If so, then whose perceptions count as reality while others are denounced as "mere perception"?

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

It's interesting how much perception and historical reputation override actual statistics on what is and is not safe.

I live in a place much like Old Louisville (except my town deliberately built economically diverse housing in its neighborhoods.) We're considered urban homesteaders. Some folks would not tolerate what we take for granted as normal in our neighborhood--graffiti, mentally ill mumbling up and down the streets, young black guys roaming the streets after school (on their way home from school!).

We've raised our two daughters there who now complain of their liberal colleges as being too whitebread. They've learned how to be street savvy and to appreciate many different types of people. I consider this an asset to living in our area.

But many people, due to past experiences or ignorance, wouldn't. I understand this and don't condemn anyone. Choosing a place to live that feels safe to you and your unique needs is something that's very personal, and there are laws to make sure all folks can do just that--unless they perceive the lack of welcome and downright hostility.

All of which raises a fun little philosophical question: is perception reality? If so, then whose perceptions count as reality while others are denounced as "mere perception"?

Windwalker, although I don't yet have children, I am much more in line with you. If many more middle class people thought like you, I STRONGLY believe alot of our social ills would not be what they are. Having positive role models in the neighborhood really does make a difference, and mixed income neighborhoods are wonderful!

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by tomocox

STX, while you may not have intended to "single me out," you have by your words insinuated that I may be a racist and cut to my heart with the wrong message. Your words are mighty harsh even though you discounted them very eloquently and with great appreciation; however, they still hurt. I will protest to the highest levels if you or anyone ever insinuates that I am in anyway racist again! Not once in this entire thread prior to your insinuation was race discussed or an issue.

If you feel Realtors are steering people away, then you are charging them with what is an illegal act punishable by huge fines and even prison. I don't know of any Realtor who would dare risk such penalties by committing such an act although we are routinely asked by clients to violate even the spirit of the law.

My concerns with the area, as I wrote previously, may be totally unfounded, but quite simply, as far as I am concerned, should be considered. The OP writer stated in a reply that he/she is considering living in Liberty Greens with a 14 yrs old child. I simply am not convinced that given a choice I would choose to raise a teenager in the area. Again, I may be totally wrong, but it's a risk I don't want. I hope I am so terribly wrong, but just this once, I will rely on my gut feelings.

Tom, I don't believe you to be racist AT ALL. I have seen you defend most sides of Louisville metro, but also know you side very clearly with living in a rural/suburban based community that happens to have virtually 0% diversity being that it is over 95% white in Oldham County. I also think that if you took a poll, many people in the metro would consider Liberty Greens unsafe, mostly because they are simply unaware of what that area is today (so you are not alone on your hunch, and surely are entitled to your opinion). I mean, UofL is bringing BILLIONS in investment to that area you speak of:

U of L gets go-ahead on Haymarket makeover

I do, however, think some of your opinions are based on subconscious racial considerations...and that is ok since we all do it to some degree. Let's just say I respectfully disagree. Liberty Green will be a wonderful, diverse, middle class area to raise a family in five years.

[tomocox]

I realize STX that you do not have children. If you did as I do, many of the area's you feel I am wrong about would take on a different hue. For the record, I know the tremendous reward of raising a child in Oldham County because I have lived in Crescent Hill (Jefferson), and then the Oldham County communities of LaGrange and Crestwood. I sent a child to Highlands Middle School and then to Waggener Traditional High School, plus two step-sons to Hawthorne (JCPS) then Holy Spirit Elementary and Middle, and the on to Trinity High School (Catholic). I have been daily involved with children in Oldham County Middle and High, plus I have weekly if not more often involvement with several high ranking Oldham County school officials. Even so, I have been critical of the Oldham County administration and Oldham County governments, too.

No one seems to understand that I have not attempted to be critical of JCPS or Louisville, but rather point out the superior opportunities to live and raise children in Oldham County. Unless one has lived here, there simply can be no true understanding of how great it is.

[EclecticEars]

Nearly anything is better than the old Clarksdale projects of the '60s through the '90s, so yeah, I'd say Liberty Green is better. It's not heaven, considering the part of town it's in, but I think the local and federal governments are doing a better job of trying to clean that part of town up.

[Windwalker]

Truth is, having children changes things.

My husband and I could live in poor areas that often come concomitant with minor crime problems. (We don't do homicide and drug drive-by shootings!--that's like living in a war zone.) I would have loved to have bought a nineteenth century townhouse in a "scary" part of town closer to where I work. Absolutely gorgeous stone with a turret, stained glass, and original woodwork, 3000 sq. feet--no kidding, 45k. Needed probably 50k work to update inside, but still. . .

Today, 8 years later, these townhomes have been written up in architectural mags and are being restored by a company and are selling for 200k. The neighborhood is turning around because of this.

With the overbuilding of McMansions, people are looking for affordable housing, so a lot of previously poor areas are going to be places to buy into and will make people money.

But when you have kids, you really can't take the risks you can when it's just adults. You have to consider safety in a different way. You HAVE to consider the schools, which don't have to as much (it still makes a difference for property values) when the kids are gone or not in the picture at all.

[rbryant]

*If* I were single and young again, I wouldn't hesitate to live in most areas of East Louisville. Now that I have kids, I would steer clear of anywhere near Smoketown and the old Clarksdale housing areas. I can still remember the two kids from Trinity that were abducted and murdered in the Smoketown area back in the early 80's. With kids i would consider the Highlands, St Matthews, and then Eastern jefferson county/Oldham county.