Louisville perception (Lexington, Frankfort, Okolona: live in, shops, safe)

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by censusdata

There is a long history of racial tension between White and Black citizens in Cincinnati that have erupted in violence.

• 1829 - Riots begun by Whites to terrorize the Black community resulted in thousands of Blacks leaving for Canada, a portion of whom founded the Wilberforce Colony in Ontario.
• 1836 - A pro-slavery riot took place.
• 1841 - White Irish-descendant and Irish immigrant dock workers rioted against Black dock workers. When the Black dock workers banded together to defend their community from the approaching Whites, the White rioters retreated and then commandeered a 6-pound cannon and shot it through the streets of Cincinnati.
• 1967 - the first riot initiated by Blacks occurred. The incident which sparked the violence was a domestic dispute between a Black couple which had gunfire involved but turned quickly into a race riot.
• 1968 - After Martin Luther King Jr's death riots raged nationwide. In the riots in Cincinnati two people died.

Main article: 2001 Cincinnati Riots
After a period of 6 years, in which 15 young Black males were killed during police confrontations, and no other race or gender died, riots broke out in downtown Cincinnati. The death of Timothy Thomas occurred on the backdrop of a federal case brought against the city and police department alleging racial profiling rallying around Roger Owensby, Jr while the civil trial investigating the police involved in Owensby's death. (See also: Roger Owensby Jr Criminal Trial.) This combination is considered the catalyst for what some refer to as riots and others an uprising. The following years saw a slowing of policing in the more crime-riddled neighborhoods of Cincinnati and a spike in the murder rate, especially young Black males killing young Black males.Race relations of Cincinnati, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this is all you have. You bring up something that happened almost a decade ago. Cincinnati's crime rate has been dropping dramatically. You have some sort of problem with Cincinnati, and I think you are just jealous of the city, what is has and how Louisville cannot offer that. You sugar-coat everything about Louisville, I have read it in your posts in the general U.S. section. It does get ammusing watching you get so jealous of Cincinnati.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by ddavison

I grew up mostly in Louisville and also in Shepherdsville just south of Louisville. I went to UK for college and left for Champaign, IL so my wife could pursue a PhD in her field.

Most of my experience with Louisville was as a kid/teenager or visiting as an adult. I went to Thomas Jefferson Middle school and then Moore High School with a brief jump to Jefferson Middle School for 7th /8th grade and back to Bullitt Central from my Sophomore year on. These were all public schools.

Growing Up/School-years :
I lived in the Okolona area and all the neighbors were extremely friendly with each other. The kids all played together and I really enjoyed this part of my childhood. The white and black kids got along well at school but there was still a lot of racism. This was a weird time where I had a few black friends at school but didn't think anything wrong about saying a racist joke and I believed a lot of the stereotypes. Thankfully this lessened as I got older. High school helped get me over this considerably and college did even more for me. I think the biggest issue was the ignorance of each other since blacks and whites did not live in the same neighborhoods.

When in Louisville, I was in the advanced programs. These were pretty decent, but the schools in Shepherdsville (the uneducated area) were better IMO. In the few classes I had outside of the advanced program, the teaching was atrocious. Discipline was so bad that the teachers would be physically threatened by the students and would be forced to leave the class in tears.

The perception in Louisville is that you didn't get a good education if you went to a high school other than a few of the good ones (St. Xavier, Trinity, DeSales.) Having been there, that's probably not an unfair statement. The advanced program in my school was practically cut-off from the non-advanced classes and I actually felt like I received a decent education there. I would never put my kid through the non-advanced programs though. That probably explains part of the "Where did you go to school?" question.

Welcoming to Outsiders
I've known people that moved to either Lexington or Louisville and they had bad experiences because they weren't into college basketball. College basketball dominates most of the conversations whenever I am in the area. I'm a die-hard UK fan, so I never really minded or noticed that aspect, but my wife is from Alabama and she noticed it. One guy I know went to a job interview and got asked, "How about them Cats?" He said something like, "oh, I really don't watch much basketball" and he said the interview was pretty much over at that point.

In Illinois, I seem to find more conversations dealing with world events or other cultures than I did when I was in KY. When I do have these conversations in KY, they think more in terms of stereotypes.

Thoughts about Cincinnati
I don't hear anything about Cincinnati up in Illinois, but most of what I heard when I was in KY was negative. I enjoyed going up to King's Island a lot when I was in the area but the news coverage seemed to constantly have stories about police clashing with rioters/protesters because some supposedly innocent kid got shot. It's probably a great city and deserving of some visits if I move back into the area. Hey, at least it's not Cleveland. That city IS atrocious.

What others think of Louisville and Kentucky
I don't have much of an accent, so people don't realize I'm from KY unless I pronounce Louisville for them. They all get a kick out of this, much like when someone from New Orleans pronounces their city. I've had a lot of redneck northerners espouse all sorts of stereotypes about how everyone from Kentucky is uneducated, has no teeth, no shoes and has several rusting cars parked in a field next to their house/trailer. Sure, we have some of that; however, I see just as much or more of it up here in Illinois or in places like rural NY.


What I miss most about Louisville and Kentucky in general
I have a lot of pride in Kentucky and our Southern manners. I was raised to always hold a door for a lady. When I do that in IL or elsewhere, I get a lot of appreciative comments. In KY it's probably expected so you may not get as much of a positive reaction. I never expect a reaction, so it's no big deal to me.

While there was and is racism still today, its actually less than I see up here in IL. People up here don't even make an effort to talk or socialize with anyone from another race. In Louisville, people forget any racist thoughts they harbored when they deal with each other one-on-one. In this respect, they aren't being "fake." They are genuinely nice to one another. I can't fully explain it. It's like they assign stereotypes to a whole group of people but never to an individual.

Our basketball history IS better practically everywhere else in the country so of course we're going to talk about it a lot.

I love bourbon now. For the uninitiated, bourbon can only be made in KY (much like Champagne.) That Tennessee whiskey has nothing on us.

I love mint juleps.

I love the Kentucky Derby and the whole week before it gets here.

The city looks beautiful (especially at night) when you drive across from Indiana.

I love the history and the tradition of Louisville. Settlers pushed through the Cumberland gap and stopped at the falls of the Ohio, making Louisville one of the oldest cities as far West as it is.

While I can't speak from my own perspective, my family still lives in Louisville and my sister states that the Louisville night life is booming.

I like that Louisville is large enough that whatever your hobbies or interests are, you can find plenty of places to accommodate them.

What I hate
The church cliques in Louisville. There are some beautiful churches here though.

That I can't buy one of those beautiful old houses in Shively when I move back because its in a bad neighborhood. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

The traffic

(sorry for the long post)

May I ask way you find Cleveland so bad? Not that I find a problem with your opinion, but I live here, love the area, and I find it much better than other cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Louisville, and Buffalo. Cleveland also has more development dollars going into downtown than any of these cities.

[emanresu]

Traveler87, really, your "opinion" means jack without the data to back it up. You espouse many rationalizations for why these Ohio cities are so wonderful, but you falsely claim many characteristics in so doing. Among these are the growth rates of cities, accolades given to cities, crime rates of cities, development dollars in cities, etc. Back it up, and we'll believe you.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by emanresu

Traveler87, really, your "opinion" means jack without the data to back it up. You espouse many rationalizations for why these Ohio cities are so wonderful, but you falsely claim many characteristics in so doing. Among these are the growth rates of cities, accolades given to cities, crime rates of cities, development dollars in cities, etc. Back it up, and we'll believe you.

I could care-less what my opinion means to you. I found this thread, because one person, did I say it was you??? One person was saying things on how "boring and ugly Cincinnatis's skyline is" and how it is the terrible city that no one should live in.

Cincinnati deserved someone to point this person out and prove them wrong.

How are these facts false? Go to the census bureau, notice Cincinnati (city) is growing, metro wise, Louisville is not growing that much faster than Cincy, and those were my exact words. Warren County, Ohio is one of the top fastest growing counties in the U.S. right now. Cleveland had 4.3 billion dollars in development since 2000 and it is still going strong. Brookings Institute named downtown Cleveland as one of the nation's best emerging downtowns with one of the fastest population growths.

[Traveler87]

http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/...EST2006-01.csv

Cincinnati city,Ohio,"332,252","331,310

Louisville/Jefferson County (balance),Kentucky,"554,496","555,899

http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/metro_general/2007/CBSA-EST2007-05.csv (broken link)

"Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN","1,233,735","1,220,424","13,311",1.1

"Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN","2,133,678","2,121,128","12,550",0.6

[ddavison]

Originally Posted by missymomof3

Darlin' that was a nice post. Where in Shively were you thinking of buying?

Thanks. I was looking at houses for sale in Louisville and came across this house on Re-Max. I couldn't find the original link but here is the picture of the front that caught my attention.

668 Lindell Avenue, Louisville KY 40211 - Trulia

It was listed at only $89K, so I suspected there must be an issue with the neighborhood. It's a real shame, because you could put an extra $40-50 into the house and really have something special.

My wife and I both really like houses with architectural character, but I am also looking to maximize the square footage. We'll be shopping probably in the $150-275K range if you know of some good areas to focus.

[ddavison]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

May I ask way you find Cleveland so bad? Not that I find a problem with your opinion, but I live here, love the area, and I find it much better than other cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Louisville, and Buffalo. Cleveland also has more development dollars going into downtown than any of these cities.

My view is mostly based on a weekend we spent there a couple years ago. Maybe there was something in the air. We came in to town for a wedding and Mapquest took us directly through a large section of the city with boarded up houses/shops/etc. Traffic was similar to other large cities but horns were blaring left and right and intersections were blocked during a light change on numerous occasions. The horn blaring and cursing was never directed towards us but it created a negative ambiance. At one point, we backed out of a parking lot and began to pull up to the street. Some sweet little old lady noticed there was a gap in front of her car where we might eventually pull out and she gave us an ugly look and gunned her car forward to close the gap. My wife and I started cracking up, but boy did the people seemed pissed off there.

At the dinner after the wedding rehearsal, one resident told us a common thing to ask is what side of the lake you live on. He said if they were from the other side, there was no point in carrying on the conversation. Then there were rude people in the tuxedo shop as well. As I said, not all of this was directed at us. We noticed most of the behavior between Cleveland natives and it just soured our opinion of the area.

The city itself (other than the abandoned areas of town) seemed like it had some things going for it. The people just did not seem very happy.

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by ddavison

Thanks. I was looking at houses for sale in Louisville and came across this house on Re-Max. I couldn't find the original link but here is the picture of the front that caught my attention.

668 Lindell Avenue, Louisville KY 40211 - Trulia

It was listed at only $89K, so I suspected there must be an issue with the neighborhood. It's a real shame, because you could put an extra $40-50 into the house and really have something special.

My wife and I both really like houses with architectural character, but I am also looking to maximize the square footage. We'll be shopping probably in the $150-275K range if you know of some good areas to focus.

Since I've been Louisville (5 years) I have noticed that the Victorian era neighborhoods are really becoming revitalized (even Portland) while the 1950s era suburbs like Shively and Okolona are going downhill in a hurry. The middle class is abandoning these areas and they are increasing becoming major immigrant enclaves (esp. Hispanic and Vietnamese)

If you live in Old Louisville, Portland, or the West End the shifting of crime and poor people is great... if you live in Shively or Okolona it really stinks

[Mikieo415]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

I could care-less what my opinion means to you.

Perhaps you should! Image is important!

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by ddavison

Thanks. I was looking at houses for sale in Louisville and came across this house on Re-Max. I couldn't find the original link but here is the picture of the front that caught my attention.

668 Lindell Avenue, Louisville KY 40211 - Trulia

It was listed at only $89K, so I suspected there must be an issue with the neighborhood. It's a real shame, because you could put an extra $40-50 into the house and really have something special.

My wife and I both really like houses with architectural character, but I am also looking to maximize the square footage. We'll be shopping probably in the $150-275K range if you know of some good areas to focus.

I couldn't see it but I don't believe that 40211 is Shively. Shively in in the 40216 zip code.