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I have been touting the attributes of Louisville here for awhile, and many accuse me of exaggerating. So I'd like to present some data. In the 1800s, the city was as big as top 12, and it was almost always a top 30 city with high density throughout much of the 20th century. It really started declining after a tornado leveled the city in 1890 (taking with it most urban neighborhoods and an elevated rail line, one of the first electrified rail lines in the USA). At that time, the Falls Cities of Louisville and Jeffersonville, Clarksville, and New Albany IN were a MAJOR metropolis that were thought of at the time as Atlanta is today.
In 1937 Louisville experience a flood BIGGER than Katrina which essentially clear cut and decimated the entire city. Louisville lost much of its population and by some estimates 1/3 of its historic structures, many of which were very dense or multi story urban neighborhoods more similar to Cincinnati's Over the Rhine or districts in New Orleans such as the French Quarter. If you think this is an exaggeration, look hard at these photos, and look how the urban density extends even to its Indiana suburbs (more on these areas later which have seen an incredible renaissance):
Louisville is known for incredible architecture and urbanity for under 2 million metros, but it really was more like New Orleans before these tragedies. A massive tornado in 1974 also decimated large swaths of historic structures. By that time, white flight was in effect and urban renewal hit Louisville as hard or worse than any city in America, and it lost some of its most grand structures to these flawed policies, along with all its downtown vibrancy.
Louisville was pretty much dead by the 1990s. Think a smaller Detroit or more similar to Birmingham. Then, something happened. New leadership came, and the city merged with its suburbs, creating what was then considered "the 16th largest city in the USA." That was about the time I first came to Louisville and I recall some of the tail end of its decline, such as a beautiful building imploded for MTV:
Louisville built one of the best urban/waterfront parks in the nation from there and the industrial decline and failed implosions and urban renewal which created surface parking all around the edges of downtown stopped.
In the last 10 years, those parking lots are slowing being filled with now 12.5 BILLION in construction from 2014-2017 IN THE CITY ONLY, in just 3 years. LESS than 3 Billion of this is roads, and this figure doesn't include any of the small developments which are changing the face of the city. There are so many, many are not listed. I have now found one of the best lists I can find which lists these major developments :
Come see the city and you will see Austin in 1999 or Nashville around 2006. The city is starting to realize it could be (and is becoming), an "it" city. Years ago, you wouldn't see the city think positively like this:
I'd like to know thoughts from anyone who has visited in the past and if they can comprehend or understand these changes. And Louisville's "suburbs" are booming just the same. As a small example, these massive projects were announced in the last couple weeks on the river a mile north of downtown in IN:
Louisville was the #1 hipster city to visit something like 5-6+ years ago. This was foreseen because of the cultural history of the area and the cool older homes.
The problem it will continue to have in comparison to places like Portland and Nashville is that there isn't as much money here as in those places - Portland because of proximity to SF and Seattle, driving up home values and the overall industry and Nashville because of the entertainment industry. I mean, a customer of my former employer just sold 200 acres to Justin Timberlake outside of Nashville. Luke Bryan also has a LOT of land out there.
Really, the challenge is to find a city from 2005-2018 that HASN'T grown significantly that is not in a tax heavy state. Pittsburgh is experiencing the same gold rush on the housing market as Louisville. Columbus has grown significantly. The Northern Kentucky area south of Cincy has boomed in recent years. Louisville also lacks that pro sports team that draws people other than townies.
So, yes, it has grown astronomically since the late 90's when I left town for college and I am amazed at the turnaround from what I remember the waterfront to be at the very first Thunder over Louisville event compared to today, as well as the improvement in downtown growth. However, infrastructure is going to be a major problem if something isn't done soon about some of the major interchanges in the city. Nashville was much better prepared for the influx of people because their government knows how to redirect tax dollars appropriately.
As we've stated in prior conversations - the state of Kentucky is Louisville's worst enemy. Not sure if I'll quote this accurately or not, but something like only 60 cents of every tax dollar from the city is returned to the city. That's cray.
Louisville is already too big for its britches, and builders are saying they can't build homes here easily for much less than $400k because of the higher cost of labor due to the shortage of quality laborers, primarily due to the opioid crisis which is why you're seeing investment in downtown primarily for the tourism industry and not a lot of SFH investment. Something has to give.
I visited Louisville in the 1990s 2-3 times. I never thought it was a city in decline or stagnant like Detroit and Birmingham. I remember the downtown as being busy and well maintained. I remember eating at great restaurants both high end and mom and pop joints, going to a nice museum and enjoying the lovely riverfront and parks. I remember some beautiful neighborhoods and great historical areas.
Could it all have been faked or was I being naive?
As far a major league sports, be careful what you wish for. After all the hoopla is over and looking down the road, many become a financial burden for cities to maintain and at the end increase crime in neighborhoods nearby. That's just my opinion coming from So Cal with lots of major league sports.
Last edited by marino760; 01-06-2018 at 09:24 AM..
I visited Louisville in the 1990s 2-3 times. I never thought it was a city in decline or stagnant like Detroit and Birmingham. I remember the downtown as being busy and well maintained. I remember eating at great restaurants both high end and mom and pop joints, going to a nice museum and enjoying the lovely riverfront and parks. I remember some beautiful neighborhoods and great historical areas.
Could it all have been faked or was I being naive?
As far a major league sports, be careful what you wish for. After all the hoopla is over and looking down the road, many become a financial burden for cities to maintain and at the end increase crime in neighborhoods nearby. That's just my opinion coming from So Cal with lots of major league sports.
It wasn't booming for sure, but I agree it was never collapsing. I would call downtown Louisville of the late 80's and early 90's more like downtown Knoxville. You have a decent CBD, but it was darn near deserted at night with the exception of O'Malley's corner, and some areas around the Galt House. The Galleria Mall (where 4th St Live is now) was certainly in decline and 4th street itself was pretty much boarded up or had wig shops galore. I was a high school student downtown for a brief stretch and JCC student, so I spent a lot of time downtown and it was NEVER like Detroit. Never. Perhaps only if you went west of 9th St, but most sensible people didn't.
Louisville's far Eastern suburbs were ALWAYS glamorous and the addition of Lake Forest and Valhalla allowed for the PGA to come in which boosted tourism before downtown and the riverfront were even considered as projects. In fact, the late 80's and early 90's was the boon for Prospect, adding subdivisions like the Estates of Hunting Creek, Sutherland Farms, Wolf Creek and Bridgepointe.
It wasn't booming for sure, but I agree it was never collapsing. I would call downtown Louisville of the late 80's and early 90's more like downtown Knoxville. You have a decent CBD, but it was darn near deserted at night with the exception of O'Malley's corner, and some areas around the Galt House. The Galleria Mall (where 4th St Live is now) was certainly in decline and 4th street itself was pretty much boarded up or had wig shops galore. I was a high school student downtown for a brief stretch and JCC student, so I spent a lot of time downtown and it was NEVER like Detroit. Never. Perhaps only if you went west of 9th St, but most sensible people didn't.
Louisville's far Eastern suburbs were ALWAYS glamorous and the addition of Lake Forest and Valhalla allowed for the PGA to come in which boosted tourism before downtown and the riverfront were even considered as projects. In fact, the late 80's and early 90's was the boon for Prospect, adding subdivisions like the Estates of Hunting Creek, Sutherland Farms, Wolf Creek and Bridgepointe.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if I hadn't visited Louisville in the 1990s, I probably never would have chosen KY as my goal for a place to retire. I really loved it and I don't think most people appreciate the old city for it's culture, Southern charm, beautiful architecture and overall friendly people. Sure it's had it's ups and downs like anywhere else, but to compare it to Detroit is absurd to say the least. IMO Louisville and KY as a whole is a treasure that is unappreciated by many.
I hope Louisville continues to maintain it's own identity, it's own charm and culture regardless of the growth.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if I hadn't visited Louisville in the 1990s, I probably never would have chosen KY as my goal for a place to retire. I really loved it and I don't think most people appreciate the old city for it's culture, Southern charm, beautiful architecture and overall friendly people. Sure it's had it's ups and downs like anywhere else, but to compare it to Detroit is absurd to say the least. IMO Louisville and KY as a whole is a treasure that is unappreciated by many.
I hope Louisville continues to maintain it's own identity, it's own charm and culture regardless of the growth.
Don’t take my comments literally. Louisville had vacancies but nothing like bombed out buildings in Detroit or even Birmingham.
My point is that now it’s literally booming. There’s no other word for it. The transformation the last 5 years is stunning and all the marquis projects are yet to complete.
Servo is a bit pessimistic...yes Louisville doesn’t have Nashville’s capitol location or tax/state favorability. What it does have is closer location to decling metros (in population) like Cleveland so it’s a good option for those who want the “south” with some Midwest comforts
Louisville was the #1 hipster city to visit something like 5-6+ years ago. This was foreseen because of the cultural history of the area and the cool older homes.
The problem it will continue to have in comparison to places like Portland and Nashville is that there isn't as much money here as in those places - Portland because of proximity to SF and Seattle, driving up home values and the overall industry and Nashville because of the entertainment industry. I mean, a customer of my former employer just sold 200 acres to Justin Timberlake outside of Nashville. Luke Bryan also has a LOT of land out there.
Really, the challenge is to find a city from 2005-2018 that HASN'T grown significantly that is not in a tax heavy state. Pittsburgh is experiencing the same gold rush on the housing market as Louisville. Columbus has grown significantly. The Northern Kentucky area south of Cincy has boomed in recent years. Louisville also lacks that pro sports team that draws people other than townies..
Places like Portland and Nashville have seen cost of living rise prohibitively over the past five to ten years. Louisville hasn't seen that kind of run-up. Too much money sloshing around can be as much of a problem as too little.
Places like Portland and Nashville have seen cost of living rise prohibitively over the past five to ten years. Louisville hasn't seen that kind of run-up. Too much money sloshing around can be as much of a problem as too little.
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly! The law of diminishing returns is in full force in those areas and SF I believe is going to start seeing a runoff of people soon also - the cost of living relative to the benefits of living there is decreasing by the day - even as they're beginning to see the average rent start to creep downward in SF.
However, if Louisville is trying to become like those towns, without the infrastructure and industry (which needs a wealthier tax base to achieve those goals), the growth of Louisville won't last. It's somewhat of a catch-22 I'm afraid. Herd mentality is what drove SF to ridiculous levels and the same is true for Nashville and Austin. If the government can somehow create short-term repayments on infrastructure projects, it can benefit the city as a whole in the longer-term. Not sure if Austin or Nashville did that.
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly! The law of diminishing returns is in full force in those areas and SF I believe is going to start seeing a runoff of people soon also - the cost of living relative to the benefits of living there is decreasing by the day - even as they're beginning to see the average rent start to creep downward in SF.
However, if Louisville is trying to become like those towns, without the infrastructure and industry (which needs a wealthier tax base to achieve those goals), the growth of Louisville won't last. It's somewhat of a catch-22 I'm afraid. Herd mentality is what drove SF to ridiculous levels and the same is true for Nashville and Austin. If the government can somehow create short-term repayments on infrastructure projects, it can benefit the city as a whole in the longer-term. Not sure if Austin or Nashville did that.
Servo....Louisville HAS put 3 billion into roads via bridges alone. They are about to pump a half a billion by digging a sewer tunnel below the river.
I think your main frustration is from how 71 and 265 need 3 lanes in each direction...that's KY's fault. Also, I am afraid the 71 cloverleaf interchange is forever stuck as it is now pretty much landlocked with development all around. I still think Louisville traffic is a joke, and its MARKEDLY better now that the bridges are complete, not sure if its a coincidence or what. Nashville or Austin traffic is a disaster! Litrerally an hour to get anywere, no exaggeration.
The answer for 71 and 64 are building new interchanges as a new "county line road." Pretty much every city around us has this and in Indy and Columbus, these are the areas where all the devlopment has occured. KY is morons for not putting an exit for like 8 miles on I-71 between 265 and Crestwood. Between I-64/265 interchange, it is something like 11 miles to simpsonville exit! That is a ridiculous space between exits and an exit "futher out" would help spread the traffic out for folks traveling to the increasingly popular sprawlburbs.
71 needs an exit with a side road to connect to KY 22 near Orchard Grass hills (while there is still maybe a small swath of land for right of way). On I-64, there needs to be an exist somewhere east of Eastwood with another road somewhere east of the Parklands to connect this interchange to US 60. Literally if Louisville was in any other state, this would have been completed already. This is all the fault of rural KY legislators.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
Places like Portland and Nashville have seen cost of living rise prohibitively over the past five to ten years. Louisville hasn't seen that kind of run-up. Too much money sloshing around can be as much of a problem as too little.
I'd be worried about potentially a spike in COL. Namely because that is a massive selling point of Louisville of having a lot of big city amenities at an affordable price.
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