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Old 10-14-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,497,794 times
Reputation: 2112

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To some people, I am going to show some ignorance, but let's just assume for argument sake that I am a poorly educated backwoods barefoot boy from rural western Kentucky.

I often read that Kentucky schools are far behind schools from other states. May be true, but at what costs do the superior schooled states go to for the results they create?

Of America's leaders at every level and age group, what percentage are publicly educated? What is the ratio of National Merit Finalists, top 5 percentile SAT/ACT test scores, and other national comparison statistics?

Is there a correlation between these super-educated states and their super-recession economics?

I wonder, and I wonder if we can have an intellectual conversation about the situation both nationally and locally?
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Bloomfield Twp.
52 posts, read 119,428 times
Reputation: 47
Tom,

I can only assume you are referring to my comment that I gave to someone who is moving here from out of state. I don't have the answers to your questions, but I can tell you that there is no school system in the area that can hold a candle to where they are moving from. I know because I am familiar with where they are from and where they are going. After I re-read what I said, it does sound harsh, however, I stand by my opinion. Also, the folks in question are moving from an affluent upper crust suburb and are probably concerned with things you can't even fathom (I can't believe we are moving to Kentucky, which they will quickly get over if they move into the right area). Imagine if they heard the governor's call to arms about this state's pitiful dental health yesterday. Not exactly a misconception, and yes this is how people view the state from the outside, which is not news. After living here, I realize there is a lot of truth to the "misconceptions", just not so much in Metro Louisville and Northern Kentucky (outside of Cincinnati). Every transplant I speak with says the same thing, "the schools are worse here than where we moved from", but we love the area and are here to stay. I'm not trying to pile on, but by any discernible statistic Kentucky schools are way below the national median.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,497,794 times
Reputation: 2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac626 View Post
Tom,

I can only assume you are referring to my comment that I gave to someone who is moving here from out of state. I don't have the answers to your questions, but I can tell you that there is no school system in the area that can hold a candle to where they are moving from. I know because I am familiar with where they are from and where they are going. After I re-read what I said, it does sound harsh, however, I stand by my opinion. Also, the folks in question are moving from an affluent upper crust suburb and are probably concerned with things you can't even fathom (I can't believe we are moving to Kentucky, which they will quickly get over if they move into the right area). Imagine if they heard the governor's call to arms about this state's pitiful dental health yesterday. Not exactly a misconception, and yes this is how people view the state from the outside, which is not news. After living here, I realize there is a lot of truth to the "misconceptions", just not so much in Metro Louisville and Northern Kentucky (outside of Cincinnati). Every transplant I speak with says the same thing, "the schools are worse here than where we moved from", but we love the area and are here to stay. I'm not trying to pile on, but by any discernible statistic Kentucky schools are way below the national median.
You need not assume that I was being critical of your post. I wasn't, nor was I being critical of your opinion. I do admit that your post prompted my post, but only to gather information, by no means was it intended to be defensive or denying.

I just know for example that here in Oldham County for the school year past (2008-09), there were three National Merit Scholars. Out of let's say 100,000 students across each state in the nation, what are the numbers of National Merit and ultra-high ACT/SAT scores. How many high school students from each state go on to get a higher degree? I need to point out that a college degree is not the only "higher degree" as there are many professions such as nursing, technical occupations, etc that simply a "college degree" would exclude.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,039 posts, read 32,029,108 times
Reputation: 30458
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
To some people, I am going to show some ignorance, but let's just assume for argument sake that I am a poorly educated backwoods barefoot boy from rural western Kentucky.

I often read that Kentucky schools are far behind schools from other states. May be true, but at what costs do the superior schooled states go to for the results they create?

Of America's leaders at every level and age group, what percentage are publicly educated? What is the ratio of National Merit Finalists, top 5 percentile SAT/ACT test scores, and other national comparison statistics?

Is there a correlation between these super-educated states and their super-recession economics?

I wonder, and I wonder if we can have an intellectual conversation about the situation both nationally and locally?
As far as BRACcies moving from MD and VA, i'll chime in. Virginia and Maryland have some of the best public K-12 education in the country . Parents who move from here to KY are probably going to think the schools in KY are not as good as from where they came from but in VA/MD's case it due to higher standards and expectations.

Do I think that someone from Kentucky can be as successful or moreso as someone from Virginia or Maryland provided they are willing to do the work? Sure. I don't think Kentucky is the worst place to educate a child. In fact, in the last education ranking (2006 morgan qutino, possibly) Kentucky is 31st in education. While KY has work to do they aren't as bad as some ignorant people think.

Now BRACcies who are from DC proper have ZERO business trashing Kentucky's schools. DC public schools are the most p^$#-poor excuse for an education system I have ever seen.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:06 PM
 
140 posts, read 558,892 times
Reputation: 68
Student performance is always and everywhere highly correlated to family demographics, especially parental education and income. Always and everywhere. Kids with educated parents who can draw on monetary resources will perform very well even in the "worst" inner-city urban schools (not in every individual case, but it's overwhelmingly statistically true). And vice-versa--kids with uneducated and poor parents are likely to struggle academically, no matter what school they're in. (Special intensive educational interventions can make a significant positive difference, although that's not practical on a public-school scale, at least not unless we're willing to spend a lot more than we already do on education. And again, there are plenty of individual exceptions--I'm just talking about aggregate data.)

Kentucky is a relatively low-income, low-education state. Hence, its students tend to score lower on national tests, etc. It isn't really fair to say the schools in KY aren't as "good" as they are in other places--they could be virtually identical to schools everywhere else, and demographics would still predict that KY students would do worse, on average, than those in many other states.

Put another way, KY would need to have significantly above-average schools, truly incredibly good schools, in order to produce average results at the national level.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,497,794 times
Reputation: 2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmill3 View Post
Student performance is always and everywhere highly correlated to family demographics, especially parental education and income. Always and everywhere. Kids with educated parents who can draw on monetary resources will perform very well even in the "worst" inner-city urban schools (not in every individual case, but it's overwhelmingly statistically true). And vice-versa--kids with uneducated and poor parents are likely to struggle academically, no matter what school they're in. (Special intensive educational interventions can make a significant positive difference, although that's not practical on a public-school scale, at least not unless we're willing to spend a lot more than we already do on education. And again, there are plenty of individual exceptions--I'm just talking about aggregate data.)

Kentucky is a relatively low-income, low-education state. Hence, its students tend to score lower on national tests, etc. It isn't really fair to say the schools in KY aren't as "good" as they are in other places--they could be virtually identical to schools everywhere else, and demographics would still predict that KY students would do worse, on average, than those in many other states.

Put another way, KY would need to have significantly above-average schools, truly incredibly good schools, in order to produce average results at the national level.
Your essay is very well written and I agree with our opinions, however, your last paragraph, in the spirit of the OP, needs to be validated. Did you write with evidence or here-say?
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