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Louisville is unquestionably Southern. Really, the transition zone is Southern Indiana; by the time you get to Lullvull, you've arrrived in Dixie.
I just can't believe some of the responses that were posted earlier. Louisville is 100% Midwestern? WRONG. Dixie culture exists in full force in Louisville. My theory is that there's still a stigma associated with the South, and people are ashamed of it and will try to distance themselves from the South whenver possible.
Alright, you can lock it now.
I agree that there are plenty of people who equate Southern with backwards hicks who love nothing but NASCAR and have one tooth. It is so untrue and it is time for the stereotypes to stop.
I do not think anyone should be ashamed of where they are from or what they like. I LOVE NASCAR!!! And I am not southern so there!! I do not consider southern people hicks nor does anyone else I know so maybe that is a stigma that people give themselves. Up here in Long Island people consider the south beautiful and they think of it more like hot girls, a fun time and great weather!!! Just to be honest!! Women think of it as the southern belle type thing and you just know it's a great place for family and kids. Look guys, I am 26 years old and my friends here at work range between 23 and 30 and we do sctually make fun of some our sales territories but never the south. Actually we joke about states like Wyoming and the Dakotas because we don't know anyone that lives there and it just makes us laugh. To us that is the boondocks all the way out there. People here think the south is amazing so don't judge people on the way you belive that they think if you do not want to be judged because really you are not. And if you were why would all of us Northerners on this board be trying to move there??? Relax and don't care what people think of you ...you are what you believe you are. If you want to be southern, then be southern. You wanna be midwestern, be midwestern. Who cares??? You are all Kentuckians and hopefully one day soon I will be too!!! Smile everybody!!!
Thank you Ler. It's funny, I have been reading the Indiana boards today and people from Indy and north think that people in Southern Indiana have southern accents and the people from Southern Indiana seem to be struggling with proving they AREN'T southern so maybe the language and culture maps aren't so far off after all?
I know who have left Louisville for larger cities have gone to Chicago rather than Atlanta. Louisville is equidistant between the two, yet ask almost any Louisvillian and they will tell you they have been to Chicago more than Atlanta for shopping, nightlife, or cultural amenities.
NOt to bring up race or anything but most people I've known (I'm black) are attracted to Atlanta for school, jobs and cultural activities (Krunk/Dirty South rap) that Louisville lacks to that degree. ALot of whites tend to go to Florida more often than Georgia or Chicago for any vacation.
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Now, Louisville definitely has Southern characteristics nearly all over except around downtown, but there is a strong Midwestern element that cannot be denied.
I second you on this statement.
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Anyone who knows Louisville's history knows the city played both sides of the coin, even historically. As the gateway to the south, the city sold southern raw materials to northern indurtrial markets from 1860-1940.
It was also the main Industrial Center distributing goods throughout the rural areas of the South. Remember what L&N stood for (Louisville and Nashville), the train's were painted "Confederate gray" and went all the way down to Atlanta.
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Today (which is really all that matters when discussing this issue), Louisville is a clear mix IMO, but no formal, scientific study has actually been done on how Louisvillians VIEW THEMSELVES. Louisville is the type of city where it is small enough that you will find many common surnames. Many of these families know each other, and many who grew up in the urban areas talk and act Midwestern. Many of these people now live in the east end, east suburbs, and Oldham County. Louisville has working class neighborhoods with taverns on every corner, right across from Catholic or Presbyterian churces. This is definitely a Midwestern inherited trait. However, Louisville has very strong southern elements. It tends to promote these more on Derby, but I think almost anyone S and SW of the 264 loop considers themsleves Southern. Also, I think Louisville's African American community largely identifies with the South. This has been popularized with pop culture and the rise of southern "crunk" style rap in Atlanta. Many black professionals also associate themselves with Atlanta. There have been many scholarly articles written on this, but I am too lazy to cite them In conclusion, you will even see a racial disparity in how Louisvillians view themselves.
I'am in large agreement with what you've stated, But there is somewhat of a hole. While you're using this loop theory, and say that Louisville's blacks identify more with the South you've completely ignored the Westend (the blackest area of town) which is Downtown. The people in Portland (mostly white) have strong Southern hickish accents.
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Of course, all of the preceding was my theory. The only scientific way to see how Louisvillians view themselves is to poll a large random sample of the community, chosen in a non biased way. This internet poll means nothing, even if people voted 100% Southern or 100% Midwest. Slugger, you seem so interested in this topic that you may want to contact Paul Coomes, a top demographer at UL. Perhaps you could conduct a TRUE RESEARCH study with him. Otherwise, all the unreferenced maps and what not mean very little to people like me and my family who are native Louisvillians and very much Midwestern! And even if you could somehow "prove" Louisville was the outright south (which you can't), it still will not change the mentality of many natives like me who are unabashadly and proudly Midwestern.....that does not mean I am not friendly, NOR does it mean I live in a declining, rust belt city!!!! Maybe it is just an all around great city that defies definition? :
Thanks for the reference and I'am largely in agreement with you on what you've said.
I personally have never been to chicago but my daughters have for school trips (they were originally supposed to go to DC) and they enjoyed it. I personally have no desire to visit a big city but lean much more toward the South as places I would personally care to visit. I have, however, met people from Chicago who couldn't wait to get out of here and back there so I guess it and Louisville are pretty different.
It's crazy to say that Kentucky isn't a southern state. It identifies more with southern culture than Midwestern - aside from the Northern Kentucky part of the state. But as a whole Kentucky is a southern state. I really don't see how they can be argued...
My aunt lives in a home from the Civil War that has slaves quarters. Every year our county has a Civil War reenactment where people come and CRY while waving their Confederate Flags and t-shirts that say "The South Will Rise Again." However, I am very close to Tennessee [a matter of miles] and maybe that shows a difference. But I still agree that Kentucky, as a whole, is definitely a southern state.
I personally have never been to chicago but my daughters have for school trips (they were originally supposed to go to DC) and they enjoyed it. I personally have no desire to visit a big city but lean much more toward the South as places I would personally care to visit. I have, however, met people from Chicago who couldn't wait to get out of here and back there so I guess it and Louisville are pretty different.
I always found that odd. School trips in Louisville are ALWAYS to Chicago or even DC or St Louis. Why not Atlanta? I don't know, it just seems like Louisville leans more towards Chicago, at least for me. Louisville even reminds me of a baby Chicago in parts.
And Slugger, I think you misunderstood my post. Louisville had strong ties with the NORTH and SOUTH. Things like L&N were all about moving southern goods to northern markets. The south produced the raw materials and the north used them for manufacturing (in general). Therefore, Louisville brokers and merchants had to have close ties in the north and south. For most of its history, Louisville, along with New Orleans, was "King of the South." People would have viewed Louisville in 1900 like they do Atlanta today. Atlanta was tiny in 1900. Louisville was over twice the size, and this did not take into account Louisville was surrounded by dense suburbs at the time like New Albany which was the largest city in Indiana until 1850. Houston and Dallas were miniscule. Miami was practically an orange grove in 1900
I picture the era from 1870-1930 as the golden era of Louisville. It is the time when many of our greatest buildings and cultural institutions were established. We also share this era in prosperity in common with the great cities of the Midwest: Saint Louis, Cincinnati, even Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Cleveland and Chicago. It was a time of great wealth and prosperity. I always have this image of F Scott Fitzgerald penning his book the Great Gatsby after visting the posh Seelbach hotel and seeing well dressed women on their mansion porches near Cherokee or Central parks.
Louisville, New Orleans, and some other industrialized southern cities ruled the roost south of the Ohio until 1940. Memphis, Richmond, and Birmingham may be included here as well, although on smaller scales. By 1960, all these cities were in some state of decline. I think Memphis and Louisville have come back strong and remain very important cities in their region, and Louisville remains a border mix of north and south, with a very bright future due to substatial growth in jobs, education, and human capital.
I always found that odd. School trips in Louisville are ALWAYS to Chicago or even DC or St Louis. Why not Atlanta? I don't know, it just seems like Louisville leans more towards Chicago, at least for me. Louisville even reminds me of a baby Chicago in parts.
St. Louis has played that part more than any other Midwestern city and is quite known for it. St. Louis and Chicago were actually neck and neck at a certain point of the 18 hundreds, However alot of Historians believe that Missouri being a Slave state is what held St.Louis back from dominating the region.
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And Slugger, I think you misunderstood my post. Louisville had strong ties with the NORTH and SOUTH. Things like L&N were all about moving southern goods to northern markets. The south produced the raw materials and the north used them for manufacturing (in general). Therefore, Louisville brokers and merchants had to have close ties in the north and south. For most of its history, Louisville, along with New Orleans, was "King of the South." People would have viewed Louisville in 1900 like they do Atlanta today. Atlanta was tiny in 1900. Louisville was over twice the size, and this did not take into account Louisville was surrounded by dense suburbs at the time like New Albany which was the largest city in Indiana until 1850. Houston and Dallas were miniscule. Miami was practically an orange grove in 1900
I was watching a program on Metro T.V. and one of the speakers said something also identical to what you are saying (using the same cities in comparison also). Louisville also had to distribute the manufactured goods thoughout the South after Northern manufacturing centers processed them. I agree with what you've just said.
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I picture the era from 1870-1930 as the golden era of Louisville. It is the time when many of our greatest buildings and cultural institutions were established. We also share this era in prosperity in common with the great cities of the Midwest: Saint Louis, Cincinnati, even Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Cleveland and Chicago.
However Louisville was no where near the level of Industry that these Midwestern centers were on at the time. This was also Richmond, Va and Birmingham's golden era as well.
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Louisville, New Orleans, and some other industrialized southern cities ruled the roost south of the Ohio until 1940. Memphis, Richmond, and Birmingham may be included here as well. By 1960, all these cities were in some state of decline. I think Memphis and Louisville have come back strong and remain very important cities in their region, and Louisville remains a border mix of north and south, with a very bright future due to substatial growth in jobs, education, and human capital.
Slugger, it seems Louisville was pretty on par with Minneapolis, Detroit, and Milwaukee as far as size goes at the end of the nineteenth century. Do you really think they were that much more industrialized? Perhaps they were, and maybe that's why Louisville is in steallar shape growth wise and economics wise compared to Milwaukee and Detroit.
Louisville was a major city no doubt, and even had one of the first National league baseball teams along with the Reds, Cubs, etc. Remnants of the old ballpark where they played against greats like Babe Ruth can be found just south of downtown before you get to Old Louisville.
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In conclusion, you will even see a racial disparity in how Louisvillians view themselves.
