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Old 01-12-2011, 09:37 PM
 
211 posts, read 499,575 times
Reputation: 87

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I dont know about y'all but this new governor seems to be kinda backwards on the idea of creating jobs

so its ok to stop the high speed rail... instead build more retail low end income jobs?

Environmentalists criticize state proposal that would allow developer to fill in wetlands

and put a restriction on the whole wind mill thing... honestly being green is going to put more money into the government than bass pro shop!

I plan on moving to madison but it pains me to see what this guy is proposing.... I understand the fear of getting free government money but we all know private sector is not doing well and we need to focus the public sector.

would like your contributions I am more than welcome to get criticism but be constructive and show me what you are thinking so I can get both side of the story.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:36 AM
 
2,987 posts, read 10,114,292 times
Reputation: 2818
Personally I do not like him and Madison in general voted against him. But the majority of the state spoke so that is neither here nor there at this time.

I look at it this way. The state has been pretty anti-business and does have a lot of red tape to get things done. On one hand, this has served the state well imo. However, maybe a new attitude and idea will work as well and improve the economy. Let's see how Walker's administration does in creating jobs and improving the state. I think new ideas and veering away from the norm can help us too.

I think the rail veto is short sighted but down the road that may come to fruition so it isn't like it's now or never, but just later.

In theory both parties keep each other in check so maybe this govenor can fix some things that need to be improved. If not we can elect someone else down the road. I really don't think it's as huge a deal as people make it out to be but we shall see I suppose.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:42 AM
 
211 posts, read 499,575 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelito23 View Post
Personally I do not like him and Madison in general voted against him. But the majority of the state spoke so that is neither here nor there at this time.

I look at it this way. The state has been pretty anti-business and does have a lot of red tape to get things done. On one hand, this has served the state well imo. However, maybe a new attitude and idea will work as well and improve the economy. Let's see how Walker's administration does in creating jobs and improving the state. I think new ideas and veering away from the norm can help us too.

I think the rail veto is short sighted but down the road that may come to fruition so it isn't like it's now or never, but just later.

In theory both parties keep each other in check so maybe this govenor can fix some things that need to be improved. If not we can elect someone else down the road. I really don't think it's as huge a deal as people make it out to be but we shall see I suppose.
I have met a lot of residents from both madison and Milwaukee. It has been interesting seeing how people are talking about this. Now by red tape, can you explain in further?

my only concern is, how far will he go with the job situation. He is proposing a border war with IL, I can see both side but would like to know more thoughts on that.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:58 PM
 
2,987 posts, read 10,114,292 times
Reputation: 2818
When I say red tape I mean a lengthy review and permit process, everything gets sent to multiple councils and commissions and commitees, so it is hard to get anything done in an efficient and cost effective matter. Everyone has to have a say on everything, at every step of the way. People need to put their stamp of approval on your project and somehow "improve" on it in order to "approve". I think the govenor wants to streamline processing of permits and remove some regulations to help businesses grow and start up in less time and with fewer costs. That is what I was referring to for the most part.

I don't think poaching Illinois for jobs will really benefit Wisconsin. From what I understand, the tax rate is similar in both states so I don't see why a business would relocate an hour north if the taxes are the same. But regardless, luring business from a neighboring state isn't good business because we are a region, not just a state. Wisconsin, as is the entire Midwest, is linked to Chicago and Illinois. If the idea is to give tax breaks for companies to move up here, I am not for that, since those same companies move on to the next city, county or state that offers them a better incentive deal 5 years down the road and then we lose out and are out what we invested. I guess time will tell, but it will be interesting to see if Walker can get the state economy in good shape. The best lure Wisconsin has is the high quality standard of living and good schools. If we need to attract new business, we should play that card along with our location being adjacent to Chicagoland. An even more bold move would be to highlight the Milwaukee and SE Wisconsin metropolitan area as part of the Chicago megalopolis and fully integrate CTA and Metra into the area, work togehter on long term development plans and market the area at a regional level. That would go for universities, airports, hospitals, etc. More of a fantasy on my part, but I think it would be good for the region.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:28 AM
 
374 posts, read 980,820 times
Reputation: 453
Killing high speed rail I completely understand. If it were a fiscally responsible idea, corporations/investors would be all over it. Instead, it requires government money subsidizing the operation. It also relies on foreign involvement and there is no excuse for this. It's like the toll roads in TX. Why would Texas need a Spanish company to come in and run an American road?

As for wind, this state has different codes for almost every township. I have many landowners (farmers primarily) who want wind but have to fight their local zoning to have it installed. Many of these people are looking forward to statewide standards for windmills that remove the ability of local townships and counties from impeding their installation.

I think that Walker has good solid ideas and, with Illinois increasing each person's tax liability, you'll see business moving across. The days of high-paying manufacturing are over so we need to look in different areas for future deveopment. I believe Walker's plan also temporarily reduces/eliminates corporate taxes as well for new companies. This coupled with the substantially lower cost of living (Chicago metro vs Kenosha/Racine/S. Milwaukee) will attract at least a few Chicago based companies. Don't forget the substantial cost of doing business in Chicago with the mandatory union labor, higher energy bills, congested transportation systems, and of course the corrupt government bodies requiring "donations". As far as I'm concerned, Chicago can go the way of Detroit.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
4,672 posts, read 7,370,862 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamjeepr View Post
Don't forget the substantial cost of doing business in Chicago with the mandatory union labor, higher energy bills, congested transportation systems, and of course the corrupt government bodies requiring "donations". As far as I'm concerned, Chicago can go the way of Detroit.
Chicago going the way of Detroit would have a very, very negative impact on Wisconsin, because the two states' economies are highly tied to one another. In fact, if Chicago were to go the way of Detroit, I think the entire Midwest would suffer.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
4,672 posts, read 7,370,862 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelito23 View Post
When I say red tape I mean a lengthy review and permit process, everything gets sent to multiple councils and commissions and commitees, so it is hard to get anything done in an efficient and cost effective matter. Everyone has to have a say on everything, at every step of the way. People need to put their stamp of approval on your project and somehow "improve" on it in order to "approve". I think the govenor wants to streamline processing of permits and remove some regulations to help businesses grow and start up in less time and with fewer costs. That is what I was referring to for the most part.

I don't think poaching Illinois for jobs will really benefit Wisconsin. From what I understand, the tax rate is similar in both states so I don't see why a business would relocate an hour north if the taxes are the same. But regardless, luring business from a neighboring state isn't good business because we are a region, not just a state. Wisconsin, as is the entire Midwest, is linked to Chicago and Illinois. If the idea is to give tax breaks for companies to move up here, I am not for that, since those same companies move on to the next city, county or state that offers them a better incentive deal 5 years down the road and then we lose out and are out what we invested. I guess time will tell, but it will be interesting to see if Walker can get the state economy in good shape. The best lure Wisconsin has is the high quality standard of living and good schools. If we need to attract new business, we should play that card along with our location being adjacent to Chicagoland. An even more bold move would be to highlight the Milwaukee and SE Wisconsin metropolitan area as part of the Chicago megalopolis and fully integrate CTA and Metra into the area, work togehter on long term development plans and market the area at a regional level. That would go for universities, airports, hospitals, etc. More of a fantasy on my part, but I think it would be good for the region.
I wholeheartedly agree.

There are threads that are apparently *excited* to see bad things happen to Chicago and Illinois ([The Midwest Economic Battle] Wisconsin 1, Illinois 0). Chicago is the economic and transportation hub of the Midwest. I think it would benefit us all to see the entire region thrive rather than die. In fact, I think it would be a great thing to see Detroit revitalized. What's good for the goose...
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:47 AM
 
211 posts, read 499,575 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
Chicago going the way of Detroit would have a very, very negative impact on Wisconsin, because the two states' economies are highly tied to one another. In fact, if Chicago were to go the way of Detroit, I think the entire Midwest would suffer.


I agree on this, Chicago is part of the mega region big shot guy that all midwest needs to keep. I was talking to someone once about this, if Chicago broke up with IL, the whole state would probably be bankrupt.

sorry but having Chicago part of Wisconsin is going to help the state in long terms if IL keeps doing the stuff they are doing, many cities will prosper in wisconsin.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:45 PM
 
15 posts, read 53,915 times
Reputation: 68
An earlier poster said this: "Killing high speed rail I completely understand. If it were a fiscally responsible idea, corporations/investors would be all over it. Instead, it requires government money subsidizing the operation."

Opponents of building the high-speed line from Chicago to Madison and on to Minneapolis certainly had some reasonable concerns, though personally I think it was a great pity that Wisconsin rejected this opportunity to get on board 21st-century passenger rail service before most of the rest of the country has a chance. But the argument that if this were a fiscally responsible idea, private industry would be leading the way appears to come more from blind ideology than knowledge of the facts.

Government subsidizes all transportation. It always has done so, in America and everywhere else.

In other words, we the people, collectively (because the government is us), have seen fit over the centuries to pool our funds to make transportation systems work. We do this because the initial investments and certain ongoing costs in any transportation system are immense, yet transportation is a public good that benefits everybody. It makes the economy work. It is to the economy what oxygen is to life.

Entrepreneurs get involved in transportation and make great money. They will in high-speed rail too. But they NEVER get involved in transportation without an initial huge boost and ongoing subsidies from government, i.e., the taxpaying public.

The great 19th century rail lines that wove our country together to create a functioning continental economy were built by entrepreneurs responding to immense financial incentives offered by government to get the lines built. We the people gave (didn't sell, gave) the 19th century railroad companies not only the land on which they laid their tracks, but millions and millions of other acres all across the country (railroad sections, they were called) which the companies were instructed to sell to farmers and others in order to finance their construction projects and their operating costs. This they did. The owners of these companies made fortunes at it. It was public-private partnership of the first order. It laid the foundation for American capitalism. Not too many people complained then. Nobody complains now.

The ports, harbors, docks, locks, dams, Coast Guard, and Army Corps of Engineers that make oceanic and river commerce possible are owned and operated by us, the people. It would be prohibitively expensive and economically distorting for anyone but the collectivity of the nation (us) to cover the cost of these aspect of commerce over water.

Our county highways, state highways, federal highways, and the interstate system were built by us, the people, the taxpayers of America. These roadways built with tax dollars massively subsidize the trucking industry and the auto industry and a lot of other industries that grew up because we decided that roads that anyone can use would be a good public investment. And we taxpayers keep these roads repaired and plowed and the bridges safe (or try to) in perpetuity because it just makes sense to do that. It's a part of our economy, our system. Nobody complains about this use of taxpayer money. Certainly I don't.

The airlines are privately owned, but our airports and air traffic control systems and the federal aviation agencies that keep the skies safe are immense public subsidies. Arguably, we should be doing more in this area since the airlines on the verge of bankruptcy.

I could go on, but my point should be clear by now: It's reasonable to disagree about the wisdom of public investment in 21st century high-speed passenger rail. However, the fact that such a system will require public investment is no argument against it. Because all transportation systems do.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 9,603,077 times
Reputation: 8932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippery Boo View Post

I could go on, but my point should be clear by now: It's reasonable to disagree about the wisdom of public investment in 21st century high-speed passenger rail. However, the fact that such a system will require public investment is no argument against it. Because all transportation systems do.
I think some people here in WI believed that by rejecting the $810 million for high speed rail, their tax dollars would be off the hook.

Wrong. We're still going to be paying and now we have nothing to show for it. I'm sure the states that took the money are laughing at us, and rightfully so.
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