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"After just over 2 years living in Madison, as a homeowner on the west side, I can tell you that the grass may look greener but it's because it's covered in fertilizer (g-rated substitute)."
I did my research before moving here to Madison. I spent over 9 months compiling everything from social trends to housing information, schools to personal input. I even looked up EPA stats to determine pollution levels within the city in different areas, including which wells provided the safest water. Let's just say - I was very thorough.
It was 2.5 years ago that I was on this very website talking to locals in Madison. The impression that I got that Madison is very safe, laid back, liberal, democratic, family-friendly, with a stable economy. The cost of living calculators all showed it as affordable for a middle income, professional family. I will highlight the complaints I have with Madison below:
Weather: Yeah, yeah, we all know the north has seasons and it's wonderful - unless you get a winter that doesn't end like this last one. The cold set in back in October and it is almost July and we are barely getting into the 70s with barely any sunshine. The days that are decent are far and few between, mostly humid and hot or cold and cloudy - there is no middle ground this year. The mosquitoes came out early and so most enjoyment of outdoors is lost unless you want painful bites all over. The weather can be beautiful here, even in the winters which are refreshing at times, but they drag on so long and can be so cloudy and dark that your body feels like you are living in Alaska - but without the $1k payout to buy things to keep your mind off the lack of sun. It is less sunny here than the rocky mtns and the upper east coast - so just bc you can "do" seasons doesn't mean you'll thrive here. One nice thing is a general lack of ice, the snow is very dry because it is so very cold (think negatives), but no snowmen or snowball fun in winter (at least not until the weekend of the melt off when temps finally climb near 30F). The UV is also very high here and the sun will burn you very quickly, it is intense heat, more so than being near the equator or tropics. You will want a hat collection for all seasons but not for style here, for actual protection.
Family Recreation: This is a huge category for families with young children. Since you can be trapped indoors with toddlers for up to 8-9 months out of the year (due to strong wind, lightning storms, and heavy snow/ice), it's important to have plenty of recreational places to escape to. If your children are over age 5 and enjoy outdoors, you can play outside in the snow (of course, there is a charge for park trails, park entrance, ice skating) - but if they are younger than 5, prepare for the biggest test of your sanity that you will ever be put to. The cost of indoor gyms is $5-12 per person, even babies and adults who don't play, for 45 MINUTES! Ok, well you could stay for an hour and a half but it's scheduled during lunchtime and naptime everywhere for open gym so it's unrealistic for those of us trying to keep our kids on schedule. That adds up to $20-48 for 45 minutes inside a giant aluminum warehouse with no rules, no supervision, and kids getting hurt left and right with screaming and tons of noise...NO THANK YOU to my personal hell.
The children's museum was a good choice when we first moved, but then they relocated and although the new one is very cool, it is very poorly supervised, the parents are ultra-grumpy and negligent, and the parking is horrendous (and of course, expensive, because it is Madison and they will nickel and dime -- well dollar -- you to death in this city). The only no-charge places to take your kids during bad weather are the mall playgrounds indoors (but they will come out smelling like Abercrombie cologne, read up on phthalates as to why this concerns me) or the libraries. The Verona and Monona libraries are the best, they have a lot to do including programs for kids. On the days you can venture outdoors in warm, sunny weather (maybe 40-60 days annually) - there are plenty of parks around, but don't expect other children to be playing there unless you go to McKee Farms in Fitchburg or Monona Dream Park in Monona (or when it is hot, the splash pad in Middleton). My best guess as to why there are no kids at parks in the daytime is because Madison's cost of living requires dual income...
Cost of living: The midwest is cheap = FALSE. I would not recommend living in Madison for a family of 4 unless your income is $65k+
FOOD: We eat real food, not processed crap, so our food costs remained relatively the same here as southern CA. We still shop Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Costco for most things, also Target has a great organic produce section. Organic groceries = same cost as elsewhere. The nice thing they do offer here is CSA shares, you can buy your fruit and veggies locally for about the same cost, maybe a bit cheaper (many other states offer this too, def. worth checking out). UTILITIES: Ouch! We use 50% less than the average US family, about 450 kwh per month on electricity and bare minimum heating with natural gas. We do pay a bit more for the greener tomorrow MGE program to fund wind energy so 100% of our electric energy is green offset, but this is a small amount of difference worth it imo. Our house is well-insulated, energy efficient in all appliances, windows, etc. and we pay approx. $100 for our electric/gas bill in (May, June, July), $180 (March, April, August, September, October), $250 (November, December), $350 (January, February). This is not living large with shorts on in winter or sweaters in summer, this is BARE MINIMUM to sustain life without freezing energy use. Yes, with the most efficient products in use in an 1800 sq ft newer house. The water bill comes 2x per year, so it's a chunk of change when it comes ($250-300), but it is comparable to our water bills previously in other locations for our use. The city of Madison does NOT rebate you for rain barrels and still charges you for stormwater runoff despite rain gardens and barrels (Verona and others rebate you this, Madison does not). Gas for your car is about 20 cents less here per gal. than back in CA...of course, car services are about double (ridiculous - hope you never need towing in winter, it was $100+ for one block). HOUSING/SALARY: Our house is mid-range at $250k for 1800 sq ft (3b/3b), newer west side location. It's nothing fancy, it's in a nice middle ground neighborhood of professionals (engineers, scientists, professors, pharmacists). The thing is that for us specifically, the salary is half the amount it is elsewhere, just like the houses in those places being 2x the cost as here - basically, Madison is equivalent in housing/salary ratio to other places such as southern CA (where we moved from, though it's cheaper in CA due to the entertainment costs, transportation, and utilities compared to Madison).
Parking: Everything here has an excessive fee. I parked on a street with no signage, no painted curbs, no indications at all and received a $45 ticket. I appealed it and was told I should know there is no parking anywhere unless it SAYS you can park there. Backwards? Yes. Legal? Not so sure. But can you fight it? No. Why? Because they will charge you 4x the original ticket fee to do so and once again not take evidence (photo or video) into account when doing so. They're rude to you no matter how nice you are and because they run this city and the university and most things in this place as a dictatorship, you are always wrong and they are always right - but if you want to discuss it, they will be happy to oblige in circles orally until your bill is racked up further. So I am here to let you know, NO PARKING applies to the ENTIRE city unless they have a sign (which to date I have not seen) that says YOU CAN PARK HERE. There are marked stalls everywhere with meters and parking lots that charge a few $$ by the 30 minutes. Yeah, it adds up. Quickly.
CRIME: The stats all looked like this was a safe city, but what I've found through personal experience is that the stats can only report what the police have reported and if the police aren't doing their jobs, well...it isn't reported. For instance, you report a rape...well they can downgrade that to improper conduct and brush it off. That means the city is rated safer and the victim is further victimized, because the little guy doesn't matter here (no matter how much they'd like you to believe otherwise with their "origin of liberalism" talk). There are an EXCESSIVE amount of sexual offenders of children here - I didn't realize so much when I looked it up on the sex offender database - because guess what, so many are NOT listed on there because they are MINOR offenders. BEWARE your babysitter! It's really disturbing. We run in very nice social circles and have stumbled upon 2 with close connections in our 2 years here. No thanks, Madison, I'll take gang shootings over raping my kids anyday. And they will ticket you for anything they can possibly find, this is their revenue - it is much more important to the police here than helping capture criminals, which involves use of city funds, not income for them. Scary but true, and very sad.
PEOPLE: There are some nice people here, but in general, people are mostly introverted. I think they are friendly because after being isolated so long with weather, they're just happy to see ANYONE alive. Most people are overweight, and being someone with high metabolism, I can assure you that it is not just their diet - whether it is the weather affecting metabolism and exercise I can't say, but we have gained weight here eating the same foods and amounts as we did before living here. So be prepared to buy a size or 2 larger than you are in now...despite going to the gym or whatever else you normally do to keep in shape. Rush hour sets in later here (7a-9a) and then earlier in the afternoons (3p-5p) - people are beyond laid back most of the time, to the point of laziness which is really frustrating if you need something to actually get DONE (esp. in those few sunny weeks of the year). I want to say I'm sure there are some who do their job, but in my experiences, this city is full of people who only do a half-a** job and then there are the few who pick up all the slack to make it actually function -- a city of leeches and mooches and some other VERY hard working, underpaid folks. If you are on welfare, you will do quite well here, unless Gov. Walker has his way -- which he is prob stubborn enough to get. And I should input that many people who are the friendliest here are transplants from other places, people move in and out of Madison like a revolving door. My non-Caucasian friends have commented to me on being racially profiled and treated differently, I cannot comment on this as I'm white and everyone seems ok to me - but it has really bothered them.
TAXES/MIDDLE CLASS AFFORDABILITY: I'm a fairly liberal person. I believe in a person's right to choose their partners, lifestyle, religion, fertility, etc. I also support in helping those less fortunate to get on their feet. I'm a fan of innovative projects to better the future. What I DO NOT support are free handouts and Madison seems to have an awful lot of those. They will gut the middle class with high fees so they cannot afford much while handing out free to all the low/no income people. We pay so much in taxes (our house taxes annually reach over $5k), and I don't think they are being handled well at all - especially since they are cutting our school funds right now. I know people on welfare, several I've met through mother communities, who have their kids enrolled in great classes and activities, the same ones I cannot afford because the fees are so high for me but since they are welfare, it is all free for them. They use their food stamps at whole foods (expensive) because they cannot use them all up at copps or other plain grocery stores. It's just a very sad thing, abuse of the system, but Madison makes it so easy that people cannot refuse the free handouts.
Case in point, if they can screwya here financially, they will. Don't let the friendly looks fool you, this city is full of leeches and I for one am SO glad to be leaving. PLEASE read not only the good but the bad and ugly about this city, they wear their masks well but you don't want to come into this defenseless. Especially if you are planning to work at Epic...that has it's own long line of horror stories splitting families apart. :-/ I wish you all GOOD LUCK, including those who keep fighting the good fight here with honest hard work and optimism.
Last edited by pinkgonegreen; 06-27-2011 at 02:04 PM..
My only comment is that during my family's ten years living there, I can't think of anything that was cheap about living in Madison. The prevailing preference in Madison is to make a green choice and a choice that favors a living wage, rather than a cheap choice. If you expected otherwise, you were misled.
[edit]I take that back. Admission to the zoo was cheap.
Most people are overweight, and being someone with high metabolism, I can assure you that it is not just their diet - whether it is the weather affecting metabolism and exercise I can't say, but we have gained weight here eating the same foods and amounts as we did before living here. So be prepared to buy a size or 2 larger than you are in now...despite going to the gym or whatever else you normally do to keep in shape.
Ha ha...this happened to my fiance and I as well when we moved here from Chicago last year. We both put on weight in no short order and we were both thin. It's a very weird phenomenon.
The zoo & Olbrich botanical gardens are FREE! Thanks for pointing that out, that is definitely info people with young kids would need moving here for entertainment.
@Megan - thank you! I hope we find our niche too. I didn't expect it to be so difficult to find a place with maturity, responsibility, and rationality....I guess it goes along the lines of "common sense - the least common of the senses!" It's been a pleasure chatting with you (and Fitchburg does offer some great community events, thanks for pointing those out - we have enjoyed them, you are one of those hard workers I talked about!)
No comment to hotbug - I think there are animals on both sides of that fence, and it's ridiculous that these leaders cannot come to a reasonable compromise like civilized adults - the whole thing is a zoo, and not the kind you'd want your kids to see! (My toddler is better behaved than some of the people I've seen downtown for this budget stuff - not great role model behavior amongst some adults)
You know... I recently visited Asheville, NC and it might just fit your bill. I kind of forgot about it when I made my last post. Some of the restaurants even compost! Not a lot of industry there so it is hard to find jobs, however.
First off, sorry you're so unhappy. I hope the next place you live will be better.
Having said that, here's my unsolicited opinion...
Re: weather: I haven't heard about the heat/sun being more intense. Actually, a few of the doctors I work with told me when I first got here that the light is actually less intense, and that my family and I should get tested and start vitamin D supplementation. Just what I've heard. I'm out every day for at least an hour (I walk to/from work) and have yet to get a sunburn, although I do wear moisturizer w/ sunblock in it (same stuff I wore in CA, actually).
Re: recreation: I like the East YMCA, which doesn't cost us anything extra, since we pay for a membership so my son can get less expensive daycare/preschool. We drop Alex off at their childwatch while we do gym stuff. There always seem to be plenty of kids there, and the staff seem knowledgeable and keep the kids civil. We also like the libraries & parks, as well as the zoo and Olbrich Gardens. I've never heard of "pay for play" gyms, and frankly think that sounds like a scam. So thumbs down to that.
Re: COL: I agree. We rent, but utilities are way higher for us than in CA. Fresh produce & fish (the bulk of what we eat) are also quite expensive, and not as good as CA. I hadn't heard about Target for produce, I'll have to check that out.
Re: crime: I haven't seen or heard of anything in this town that comes close to the level of crime I've experienced in various cities in CA. Sexual predators are everywhere, but I've seen nothing that makes me think Madison is worse than anyplace else.
Re: people/social services: Pretty much agree with you here, but as we mostly socialize with DH's family & a few old friends of mine, this doesn't bother me too much.
I consider myself one of those hard-working, underpaid types (and a state worker to boot), so I don't know much about slackers personally.
I will say, though, that in my line of work I see a lot of people receiving social services who live in relatively wealthy areas of WI (ie, Shorewood & Waukesha Co. in the MKE area, near West & the UW area in Madison, etc). I've also noticed a lot of people are eligible for services/support they could never get in CA, especially the mentally ill. I think that's great, but I'm not sure how it's paid for. Property taxes? Fewer people=more money in general?
Fitness: Speaking as an overweight person, I've been able to lose about 25 lbs since arriving 6 mos ago (intentionally). I get out in cold weather way more than I do in hot, so maybe the climate is a benefit to me? I've noticed this weird thing at work, though, where if people see me eating healthy stuff, they immediately offer me junk food. So I kind of hide my lunch now. Don't know how much that's a WI thing, I've never seen it before.
Anyway, I don't know that Madison will be a permanent place for us, but we like it fine so far. JMO.
You know... I recently visited Asheville, NC and it might just fit your bill.
Other than NC giving illegals free drivers licenses for a while, NC is a wonderful place to live (outside of the research triangle). Oh, and charlotte.
Property taxes there are quite low also, so the government's not confiscating all your money that way. Eastern NC is nice.
It's nice to see an east side POV, Meghan. I think WHERE you live in Madison can make a night/day difference in your experience. The problem was that we needed a house that was safe (lead/asbestos-free) but we also like liberal people - the first required not being on the east side and the second requires the east side - catch 22 for us.
I'm glad you haven't had any experience with sexual predators, you probably know a few and just haven't found out yet - the #s are really high here and the programs are maxed out and overbooked in Madison to provide treatment to these victims and offenders. It was VERY scary to see the inside of that system. I can't tell you our personal experience because the families of victims can be prosecuted in WI for speaking out...nice way to protect {and discourage truth} eh.
Asheville, NC - Ithaca, NY - Boulder, CO have all been suggested as places to check out.
On another note, if you aren't into 5-7 days of hearing fireworks at midnight and parties for the first week of July every year -- Madison may also not be the place for you. Or I guess if you are a light sleeper at all because in winter there are snowblowers going all night long too....or maybe my neighbors are just all inconsiderate?! LOL
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Don't know how much that's a WI thing, I've never seen it before.
