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Old 12-29-2011, 08:20 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,285,459 times
Reputation: 28564

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My questions are very open-ended, general, and coming from a position of near-total ignorance so please bear with me.

I have never been to Wisconsin in my life. I grew up in Dallas and spent a good portion of my 20s and early 30s living in various European countries. I returned to DFW a few years ago and am not very happy here.

In DFW it is very difficult to get to know people. Most people my age (late 30s) are married with kids and don't want anything to do with singletons like me.

I no longer date because the dating pool here, quite frankly, sucks. There are very few quality men in my age range here; most are either re-treads with huge child support payments and/or hangups about their 'psycho' ex-wives, or men who have never been married before and act like babies.

People here are so rude, materialistic, and pushy. I'm often left in open-mouthed shock over how rude people here are. When I am hit on, it is usually by Latino men shouting obscenities in Spanish or making obscene gestures. People here do the opposite of what they should do; they are rude and confrontational when they should leave well enough alone, and are anonymous and passive-aggressive when a direct approach would be more effective.

I'm sick of it; I want a change. I'm sick of the way people here behave. I'm told Madison (and the Midwest as a whole) is different.

How different could it possibly be? Would I fit in there? I'm quiet and reserved but also friendly. I like having friends. I also like having friends who do more than shop and eat out. I'm sick of that. It's boring.

Thank you.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:37 PM
 
5,680 posts, read 10,335,832 times
Reputation: 43791
Ooof. You've got a lot of good questions, and it would probably take a thesis-length essay to answer them all. But I'll give it a go.

I'll start with the obligatory disclaimers: these responses are completely subjective, and they are based on my experience here, which is fairly comprehensive in some respects and nonexistent in others (like the dating scene). I'm not going to try to make an assessment about how well Madison would (or wouldn't) fit you; instead, I'll tell you what my impressions of the city and region are, based on the decade-plus that I've lived here, and will let you draw your conclusions about how well those fit your needs.

I do have some basis for comparison, as my family and I lived in Texas for 18 years before moving here in 1999. I know that some attitudes in Texas are, well, different, to put it charitably, from those in the Midwest, and even though I was living about 500 miles south of where you are, there are aspects of life there that pervade all parts of the state.

So, what is Madison like? Well, it's really, really liberal. It's very political (it's the state capitol, after all, as well as home to the preeminent university in the statewide system) and you can find demonstrations about things ranging from benefits for teaching assistants at the university to anti-war protests to Occupy protests to pro-union demonstrations. And around the edges, you'll also find a few folks from the other end of the political spectrum with counter-demonstrations going.

There's a whole lot of outdoor activity here. That was one thing that astounded us when we moved here in 1999, and it still catches us by surprise. In extreme south Texas, NOBODY went outdoors if they could help it - they'd scuttle from air-conditioned homes to air-conditioned cars to air-conditioned stores, offices and schools, but they'd never willingly spend time out of doors. Here, we see folks biking, jogging, hiking, rollerskating, cross-country skiing, ice-fishing, playing soccer, and just plain enjoying the outdoors, all year round, and it's downright refreshing.

For a city of less than a quarter-million, Madison has a respectable amount going on in the arts. There are several small but fine museums, some excellent classical music ensembles, multiple repertory theatre companies, dance ensembles, lots of folk music, and a surprising number of big names come through the city on tour. The city can't hold a candle to the offerings in Milwaukee and Chicago, of course - but then, both of those cities are within three hours or less of a drive away, so near enough to get to for a weekend.

Now, the people .... This is a little more difficult to explain. You see, there's this thing called "Midwestern Nice" that you'll find here, and it really baffles a lot of outsiders. Folks here will be friendly, but there's a reserve that's always there, a barrier that's hard to breach. They'll wave at you on the street, exchange hellos over the back fence, but they won't invite you to grill brats and watch the Packer game. I think of it as the difference between a bouncy and effusive dog and a polite but reserved cat, though I've heard other analogies less complimentary. Have you ever listened to "A Prairie Home Companion?" Garrison Keillor does a spot-on depiction of that sort of Midwestern reserve; you don't realize how accurate it is until you encounter it in person, but he's really got us figured out. Folks here can be hard to get to know, even after many years.

Now having said that, I'll also say that we've been able to assimilate pretty well here, and while we don't have a huge collection of best friends, we have found a small group of people with whom we have enough in common to forge a lasting friendship. I think the secret, at least for us, was to be proactive about going out to find activities and groups that interested us; whether that was helping to plan and put on a feminist science fiction convention, or taking a gluten-free cooking class at the co-op, or getting a membership at a pottery studio, we were able to find folks that were interested in the same things we are, and that helped build the bonds of friendship. There is an impressive number of groups like that in the city, and I think most folks could find at least one or two that would be interesting.

The one area where I am not going to be any help at all is with the dating scene. I'm monogamous, partnered, have been for decades, and I couldn't even begin to tell you what to expect in that regard here. I have gotten the sense from others who are more attuned to the dating scene than I that what you're describing is more wide-spread than just the DFW area, but I have no idea whether or not it's true here.

I do want to strongly encourage you, if at all possible, to plan a visit or two to any city you consider as a potential relocation destination BEFORE you make any commitments. Visiting a board like this one can give you at least some sense of what a community is like, but you're getting it all filtered through someone else's eyes. There just isn't any substitute for some on-ground, in-person research. And if you're considering a place with cold winters, I'd suggest a minimum of two visits, one in about January and one anywhere from May to October, just to get a sense of what the climate is like.

Keep us posted if you identify more specific questions about Madison, and good luck to you. I lived in a place I hated for a long, long time, and I know how soul-killing it can feel. I hope you wind up landing in a place that truly resonates with you, and that you find happiness and fulfillment for many years to come.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:07 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,285,459 times
Reputation: 28564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwesternBookWorm View Post

I do have some basis for comparison, as my family and I lived in Texas for 18 years before moving here in 1999. I know that some attitudes in Texas are, well, different, to put it charitably, from those in the Midwest, and even though I was living about 500 miles south of where you are, there are aspects of life there that pervade all parts of the state.
I think I know what you mean.

Quote:
So, what is Madison like? Well, it's really, really liberal. It's very political (it's the state capitol, after all, as well as home to the preeminent university in the statewide system) and you can find demonstrations about things ranging from benefits for teaching assistants at the university to anti-war protests to Occupy protests to pro-union demonstrations. And around the edges, you'll also find a few folks from the other end of the political spectrum with counter-demonstrations going.
That sounds good to me; I am politically liberal.

Quote:
There's a whole lot of outdoor activity here. That was one thing that astounded us when we moved here in 1999, and it still catches us by surprise. In extreme south Texas, NOBODY went outdoors if they could help it - they'd scuttle from air-conditioned homes to air-conditioned cars to air-conditioned stores, offices and schools, but they'd never willingly spend time out of doors. Here, we see folks biking, jogging, hiking, rollerskating, cross-country skiing, ice-fishing, playing soccer, and just plain enjoying the outdoors, all year round, and it's downright refreshing.
That sounds awesome, though I am not a winter sports kind of girl.

Quote:
For a city of less than a quarter-million, Madison has a respectable amount going on in the arts. There are several small but fine museums, some excellent classical music ensembles, multiple repertory theatre companies, dance ensembles, lots of folk music, and a surprising number of big names come through the city on tour. The city can't hold a candle to the offerings in Milwaukee and Chicago, of course - but then, both of those cities are within three hours or less of a drive away, so near enough to get to for a weekend.
That also sounds good; DFW has tons of cultural opportunities though I don't take advantage of them as often as I could.

Quote:
Now, the people .... This is a little more difficult to explain. You see, there's this thing called "Midwestern Nice" that you'll find here, and it really baffles a lot of outsiders. Folks here will be friendly, but there's a reserve that's always there, a barrier that's hard to breach. They'll wave at you on the street, exchange hellos over the back fence, but they won't invite you to grill brats and watch the Packer game. I think of it as the difference between a bouncy and effusive dog and a polite but reserved cat, though I've heard other analogies less complimentary. Have you ever listened to "A Prairie Home Companion?" Garrison Keillor does a spot-on depiction of that sort of Midwestern reserve; you don't realize how accurate it is until you encounter it in person, but he's really got us figured out. Folks here can be hard to get to know, even after many years.
We have a ton of people from the midwest living here so I know exactly what you're talking about. I can deal with reserve as long as people aren't fake or cruel; they seem to be both here.

Quote:
Now having said that, I'll also say that we've been able to assimilate pretty well here, and while we don't have a huge collection of best friends, we have found a small group of people with whom we have enough in common to forge a lasting friendship. I think the secret, at least for us, was to be proactive about going out to find activities and groups that interested us; whether that was helping to plan and put on a feminist science fiction convention, or taking a gluten-free cooking class at the co-op, or getting a membership at a pottery studio, we were able to find folks that were interested in the same things we are, and that helped build the bonds of friendship. There is an impressive number of groups like that in the city, and I think most folks could find at least one or two that would be interesting.
I have tried this in DFW and have not been successful; people here are pretty superficial and make a lot of empty promises.

Quote:
The one area where I am not going to be any help at all is with the dating scene. I'm monogamous, partnered, have been for decades, and I couldn't even begin to tell you what to expect in that regard here. I have gotten the sense from others who are more attuned to the dating scene than I that what you're describing is more wide-spread than just the DFW area, but I have no idea whether or not it's true here.
No biggie; I am not actually all that interested in dating right now.

Quote:
I do want to strongly encourage you, if at all possible, to plan a visit or two to any city you consider as a potential relocation destination BEFORE you make any commitments. Visiting a board like this one can give you at least some sense of what a community is like, but you're getting it all filtered through someone else's eyes. There just isn't any substitute for some on-ground, in-person research. And if you're considering a place with cold winters, I'd suggest a minimum of two visits, one in about January and one anywhere from May to October, just to get a sense of what the climate is like.
Of course; I would encourage anyone wanting to move to DFW to do the same. It's just common sense.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,185,348 times
Reputation: 29983
If you're not a "winter sports type of girl," I'd suggest finding some winter outdoor interest or else winters will be very, very long.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:38 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,285,459 times
Reputation: 28564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
If you're not a "winter sports type of girl," I'd suggest finding some winter outdoor interest or else winters will be very, very long.
I should clarify...I'm not very outdoorsy so I imagine that I'd do in winter in Madison precisely what I do here....indoor activities.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:56 PM
 
5,680 posts, read 10,335,832 times
Reputation: 43791
Well, that'll work up to an extent, but Drover has an excellent point about winter. You could be setting yourself up to go stir-crazy if you planned to stay indoors the whole winter.

One of the things that I too often forget to mention, particularly to people considering moving here from more southerly latitudes, is the dramatic difference in the length of days between summer and winter. Yes, I know winter days are shorter than summer days in Dallas - but the difference between them is much more dramatic and extreme at this latitude than it is in Texas.

Case in point: when we moved here in 1999, it was right at the tail end of June, about ten days after the summer solstice. At that point in the year, when I walked out my front door at 5:00 a.m. to take the dog for a walk in Texas, the eastern horizon was just starting to get rosy with impending dawn, but the sky was dark, stars were out, and street lights were still on. When we arrived here in Madison on July 6 and I set foot outdoors at 5:00 a.m. to walk the dog, it was full daylight, enough to read a newspaper by.

At the other end of the season, from about mid-November until late January, it's full dark by 5:00 p.m. here, and it isn't fully daylight in the morning until about 7:30 a.m. That's over fourteen hours a day of darkness - and with far more grey, cloudy days than bright sunny ones in the winter, it can feel as though you're perpetually in the dark.

For some folks, that's not a problem, of course. But a not-insignificant number of people are affected to a fairly dramatic degree by chronic lack of light, and it can have a major impact on a person's equilibrium and happiness.

So, yes, if you don't care for things like cross-country skiing, skating, snowmobiling and ice-fishing, you can certainly entertain yourself indoors during the winter. But you'd be prudent to plan to manage some kind of outdoor activity, even if it's just a regular daily walk, or you'll have cabin-fever by Valentine's Day every winter.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,285,459 times
Reputation: 28564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwesternBookWorm View Post
Well, that'll work up to an extent, but Drover has an excellent point about winter. You could be setting yourself up to go stir-crazy if you planned to stay indoors the whole winter.

One of the things that I too often forget to mention, particularly to people considering moving here from more southerly latitudes, is the dramatic difference in the length of days between summer and winter. Yes, I know winter days are shorter than summer days in Dallas - but the difference between them is much more dramatic and extreme at this latitude than it is in Texas.

Case in point: when we moved here in 1999, it was right at the tail end of June, about ten days after the summer solstice. At that point in the year, when I walked out my front door at 5:00 a.m. to take the dog for a walk in Texas, the eastern horizon was just starting to get rosy with impending dawn, but the sky was dark, stars were out, and street lights were still on. When we arrived here in Madison on July 6 and I set foot outdoors at 5:00 a.m. to walk the dog, it was full daylight, enough to read a newspaper by.

At the other end of the season, from about mid-November until late January, it's full dark by 5:00 p.m. here, and it isn't fully daylight in the morning until about 7:30 a.m. That's over fourteen hours a day of darkness - and with far more grey, cloudy days than bright sunny ones in the winter, it can feel as though you're perpetually in the dark.

For some folks, that's not a problem, of course. But a not-insignificant number of people are affected to a fairly dramatic degree by chronic lack of light, and it can have a major impact on a person's equilibrium and happiness.

So, yes, if you don't care for things like cross-country skiing, skating, snowmobiling and ice-fishing, you can certainly entertain yourself indoors during the winter. But you'd be prudent to plan to manage some kind of outdoor activity, even if it's just a regular daily walk, or you'll have cabin-fever by Valentine's Day every winter.
I lived in Europe for years; I know exactly what you're talking about regarding day lengths being more extreme in summer/winter at more northerly latitudes.

As for winter sports...I lived in Germany (among a few other countries) for a while but I was always too busy working or partying to partake. I'll give anything a second chance, provided I could find clothing warm enough. However as long as any house I live in has space for a treadmill and enough floor space for a good aerobics session, I'm fine. If there's a health club nearby, even better.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:18 AM
 
5,680 posts, read 10,335,832 times
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Ah, I see - your first post mentioned living in Europe, but not which regions. In that case, you know what to expect from a Midwestern winter.

If you decide to head up on a scouting trip, stop back by here and let us know, and I'm sure there'll be all sorts of suggestions for places to see and things to do while you're here. In the meantime, I'll leave you with a link to an old thread that is still quite useful, where you might find additional information that would be relevant to your research: A Variety of Useful Links and Info about Madison WI!. You can pick up a lot about the tone of the city by reading what the locals find important, and the links in that thread provide a good sampling of what you might find here.
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