Too many transplants in Madison? (Milwaukee, Portland: middle-class, fit in, how much)

[radraja]

Although a midwestern native, I've been living in Las Vegas for the past few years for job reasons. The rapid growth and excess of transplants is becoming too much, so I'm looking to relocate to someplace stable, with more of a local feel.

My dad is insisting that I choose Madison. My entire family is from Wisconsin, and I've spent a decent chunk of my childhood there, so I know that I love the state. But due to Madison's insane popularity, I'm a bit skeptical. I don't want another Vegas (a city that's been ruined by rapid growth and an influx of snobby transplants who try to bring their homestates with them).

How bad is the situation in Madison, really? Are there too many people constantly moving in, or would you say that the growth is reasonable? Is most of the growth from other places within the state, or is it mainly transplants from elsewhere? If the latter, are the transplants typically nice people who blend in well? Is the quality of life changing due to the growth?

Thanks. Any insight would be appreciated. (And I'm sorry if these questions sound harsh - I'm just really sick of what I've had to put up with here, and want a positive change.)

[tchemgrrl]

Madison has, for a long time, had a large temporary population because of the university and government. Students, grad students, gov't officials, and their families come and go every few years. For people under the age of 30, like me, you really do need to get used to the fact that all your friends will leave.

On the other hand, I don't think of it as a boom town the way Las Vegas is. I wouldn't even call it "insanely popular". Among my friends on the East Coast, the main response when I say I came to school here is "why?" I think it's a lovely place to live, but it's not as well-known as all that.

[radraja]

I've seen a lot of talk about how much people would love to move there, and how it's the best midwestern city, and so on...

I guess most of it is just hypothetically speaking then?

[Chelito23]

I think Madison attracts a different bred than the sunbelt cities. Most transplants tend to be from Seattle/Portland out west, or from Chicago or Minneapolis...and a few from the East Coast. Most of the people that relocate here are highly educated and contribute to the community, as opposed to the "drainers" in the boom towns who put stress on the infrastructure without giving much back.

With that said, the area manages growth pretty well and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Fortunately, Madison does recieve rave reviews, but it's harsh weather keeps a lot of potential relocators away...

[MidwesternBookWorm]

My family and I are transplants, originally from Michigan by way of South Texas. I can't tell you how locals view our decision to settle here, but from our perspective, it has been a good move. However, that's at least partially because Madison resonates so incredibly well with us; we've really found a place that meets all of our criteria for "the perfect spot".

But it is important to emphasize that not everyone has the same criteria that we do, and others might find Madison much less to their liking, hence would be less likely to stay. Other threads have commented on this as well, and it is very true.

We can be best described as middle-class, liberal, college-educated professionals. We have family members who do not fit into the traditional norms of sexual identity. We enjoy living in a community where people like to be out of doors. We like Farmers' Markets. We are strong supporters of recycling and sustainable lifestyles, and we like to be able to buy fresh organic food directly from those who produce it. We have a passion for classical music and good live drama, as well as folk music and classic rock. We are all avid readers. We enjoy the liveliness and excitement of a large university, even if it does mean that there are some parts of town that get pretty wild on football Saturdays and weekend nights. We enjoy a wide variety of ethnic foods and cooking styles, and we prefer to patronize local restaurants rather than national chains. We love and appreciate all four seasons, even winter.

That's a pretty good sampling of the things that make Madison the right place for us. But there are a whole lot of folks out there who would find it a totally alien, unfriendly, horrible place to be, and they'd rather live anywhere else than here. And folks like that, if they decide to move to Madison because of all those articles about it being *the best* place to live, they move on pretty quickly, because it's not *the best* for them.

[Drover]

Madison is not Las Vegas and it never will be. There's an obvious economic reason for this: desert land has virtually no productive value to trade off against when determining whether to develop it or not. Land out there is literally worthless for any other economic purpose save its aesthetic value. Now that infrastructural technology improvements have made it cost-effective to build cities in the middle of the desert (at least in the short-term – long-term is another topic altogether), there's virtually no short-term downside to expanding outward unabated. That's why desert cities and metro areas are booming like mad.

While there's a lot of open land around Madison as well, it has productive value as farmland. That means it won't be developed until it has more value for housing/industrial/retail/whatever than it has for agricultural production. This acts as a brake on development. It still happens, but not as rapidly as it does in many Sun Belt cities.

Part of what makes Sun Belt cities so susceptible to rapid transformation in every way – physically, economically and culturally – is that they have only recently seen major development (By "recent" I mean mostly within the last half-century.) They are still blank slates and their institutions and identities are being fleshed out and determined right now, as we speak. On the other hand, Madison's identity is firmly rooted in well-established institutions, culture and traditions, so people moving to Madison pretty much know what they're going to get. Every city still goes through changes, but the ones that are well-established change at a slower, more manageable pace instead of the infuriatingly head-spinning pace found in Sun Belt cities.

People typically move to Madison because of what it already is rather than what it might be some day. There is, of course, the extremely transient population brought in by the university, but by institutional nature it will never be a rapidly growing segment of the population. Even so, a solid majority of them are from Wisconsin anyway, and a good chunk of the remainder are from bordering states. Even transience due to government draws mostly people from within Wisconsin who simply replace outgoing people from Wisconsin, so they're not bringing radically different values to the city. Madison by-and-large draws in people from the upper Midwest -- primarily the Chicago, Milwaukee and Twin Cities areas -- and therefore there's not a lot of culture shock or "cultural transformation" going on. These people are already familiar with the basic regional values. Others are drawn to Madison's specific values that add a heavy dose of progressivism to the Midwest regional values, such as the Pacific Northwest transplants Chelito refers to. In either case, people who move to Madison know there is already an established rhythm, and they typically go along with it.

[tchemgrrl]

I think everyone else made the point I meant to make better--there are a lot of people that love Madison, and the area has gotten some great press about being a great place to raise a family, etc., but there are lots and lots of people who would look at the liberal environment, the lack of catering exclusively to cars, the cold, the students, the bar culture, or the broad diversity of religions/sexual orientation/political opinions/lifestyles and run away screaming.

Las Vegas has such a huge tourist base that I'm guessing it can support about any number of people. I'm guessing that because of the tourist base, there are a lot of people that come for a visit that decide to stay because they see the amount of money being thrown around. They'd be coming in from all over the country, coming to be part of a boom town, and maybe I'm wrong but I don't think of it as a place with a long history of community building.

The people I know who've stayed in Madison from other places mostly started as students, or profs--associated with the University in some way. I think that's a very different mechanism of accumulating residents, much more dependent upon falling in love with a place for what it is over years, more likely to bring in people from nearby rather than far away, and *slower*. It's possible that it'll get huge in a few years. It's definitely growing right now. But it's such a different way of growing, that I'm not concerned about coming for a visit in 20 years and finding the character completely changed.

[Drover]

The one change I find dismaying about Madison is the chainification of the State Street area. I suppose chains have long been at least a part of the landscape -- when I lived there, there was a Pizza Hut, a Wendy's which I think is now a Starbucks, a La Bamba, a Noodles & Company, Buffalo Wild Wings (fka bw3), Taco Hell, Pizzeria Uno, etc. Many of these places are still there. But every time I go back, it seems there's a new chain where a mom-and-pop used to be. I was so infuriated to see Cold Stone open up right across the street from The Chocolate Shoppe that I refuse to eat at any Cold Stone any more. Predatory jerks -- couldn't you have found a place to set up shop at least a couple blocks away?

There's no question that Madison has enough eclectica to keep its unique vibe going if given the chance. But how long can independent shops afford the rents in the downtown and campus areas? How long before chains are the only ones who can afford to stay there? In this I see the start of the flummoxing paradox that has already consumed coastal California and southern Florida: it is becoming a victim of its own success.

[radraja]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I feel much better about the idea now (and I really do miss WI).

[hckplyers]

Drover it's called free enterprise, demografics, capitalizm at it's best. It is why people come to the US every day from all over the world, even if they hate us. So support the businesses you love so they don't disappear like the other mom and pop stores we all grew up with and were sad to see go. Stlll go to Dotty Dumplings even though they-- moved?