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Hello everyone, I am actually looking at different cities and towns as possible places to live for a few different schools I am considering to finish my formal education. University of Wisconsin is one of them (University of Washington, University of Tennessee-Knoxville, Medical College of Wisconsin/Marquette University and the University of Utah being the other likely choices with a few more that are less likely or less appealing) because of the research opportunities with one of the handful of folks in the field in which I am interested. I have always heard great things about Madison and the opportunities the University has to offer are very attractive to me.
The questions I have though are what are the good suburbs or outlying towns that would be a good fit for someone who is academically minded and well-educated? I grew up in a town of a few hundred people and being an intellectual in a town where it is not exactly the norm isn't exactly pleasant. I know for a fact that I don't want to live in the city itself for the most part since I'm not a "city kind of guy" if that makes sense. My fiancee (wife by the time we move) is more of a city girl so the idea of living out in the smallest of towns would really not be amenable to her thinking.
Neither of us are big party sort of people and honestly, I would prefer to live in a community with an average age older than myself. To be brutally honest, I would prefer to stay away from areas populated with students because of the noise and other issues associated with those areas (which is one major reason we are moving to a different neighborhood here in Indianapolis for the remainder of our time here). We don't have kids (neither of us can) so schools aren't a major concern as they are for a lot of folks. A quiet and friendly area is all we are really looking for.
The only other big issue we have is that we are trying to avoid areas that are prone to racial/ethnic/social division or strife as a result of that since we currently live in a predominately black neighborhood (there is one other non-black couple living within a couple of blocks of us) and have been largely treated as "outsiders" even though I am a minority myself (Native American, albeit a fair skinned one as a result of my mom's side being "five shades of pasty white European" to quote the joke she tells). Nothing too hostile, no violence or anything like that but we just have not felt "welcome" in the area because of the self-imposed segregation of the neighborhood. We have a few neighbors who are great including the older couple across the way who have been so kind to me but the vast majority treat us like we have horns or something sticking out of our heads whenever we try to be social or helpful.
It may honestly be more a result of this being a relatively younger and less educated neighborhood than some others we could have chosen since nearly all of the problems we have had are with younger people whereas the few older folks in our community are a lot nicer. I don't care what ethnicity my neighbors are so long as they are friendly and don't care about my ethnicity. I hope that makes sense... From what I can tell from reading the forums, this doesn't seem to be a major problem in the Madison area as it might be in other cities. Getting away from the divisiveness of Indianapolis will be a welcome and wonderful thing as it is one of the things that makes this city flounder and fail miserably.
I did a search on here and also looked over the pages of a few of the places that seemed to suit our requirements. One of them (Shorewood Hills) was excluded simply because I doubt we could afford to live there. The others I have looked at are Verona, McFarland, DeForest and Middleton. Any other suggestions or advice on these towns would be appreciated.
Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.
Let me start off by saying that a lot of people say that Madison feels like one big suburb, so I would be careful about limiting your search to places without a Madison address. Some of the newer developments on the outskirts of town feel more suburban than most of the nearby towns.
The undergraduate population is pretty concentrated; they're mostly located in an area from just east of the Capitol to just west of Camp Randall. Grad students are pretty common in an area a mile or so farther in either direction. Outside of that, the UW student population will be low in the city and basically negligible outside of it, but of course there will be small clusters of students around other schools (Edgewood, MATC).
Of the Madison suburbs, Middleton and Monona are the most city-esque. I don't really know how to describe that better than saying they have parts that I would consider walkable, plus they are close enough to the city to have public transit. They tend to have more young professionals than the other suburbs. They happen to sit on lakes, which is nice, and they're well-established (I believe they're both actually older than Madison). I lived in Middleton as a single 23 year old and loved it. It was quiet, very friendly, and close enough to take a cab home from downtown Madison on a Saturday night if I needed to. These cities might be a good compromise between what you want and what your fiancee wants.
Fitchburg is a bordering suburb that is basically indistinguishable from Madison to me (it's essentially just a town(ship) of subdivisions that incorporated as a city to avoid being annexed by Madison). It's mostly residential, and while it has some nice areas, it also has some less than desirable neighborhoods. That might be why you didn't mention it, but that's why it (and even more so, south Madison) will have the least expensive rentals in the immediate Madison area. For the record, Madison crime is a cakewalk compared to most cities, and residents tend to exaggerate how "diverse" and dangerous south Madison/north Fitchburg are; I've mostly been treated with respect there, but I'll admit I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable living there. You wouldn't find any neighborhoods like the one you described, but you probably want to avoid parts of Fitchburg anyway.
Outside of those, you're looking at mostly bedroom communities where you would need a car to function. DeForest, Verona, and McFarland are all very nice, family-oriented towns. This is a personal stereotype, but if I had to describe the population as a whole, I'd say soccer moms. Verona has a bit of a different dynamic because they have a large company, Epic, that hires a lot of fresh UW graduates, so it may be slightly younger. I haven't lived outside of the city much, but the three you mentioned, along with Sun Prairie, Waunakee, Oregon, Cross Plains, and Cottage Grove are nice, friendly, quiet places that fit your criteria and are within a half an hour drive of UW. Maybe someone who has lived in them can differentiate them a little better, but they all kind of seem similar to me. I personally really like Stoughton, but I can't really pinpoint why, and it's slightly farther out than the ones you mentioned.
Two other notes: the suburbs are very white. It is Wisconsin, after all. While some people might be a bit insensitive, I wouldn't expect to see any signs of disrespect towards any minority. Since you're living in Indianapolis, you're probably familiar with the concept of Midwestern nice. People will be friendly, say hi, etc, but they might be a little closed off. Also, parking on campus is very annoying, so be ready for that if you choose to go to UW.
I'd vote for Middleton. It has a small town feel, but is so close to Madison that the boundaries are easy to miss. It is convenient to campus, shopping, restaurants and entertainment venues. I would want to live by the library and Hubbard Ave Dinner if I lived there. There are some nice older homes around there.
I don't think you need to worry about people discriminating against you and people from minority groups won't snub you in public. I did have a job that took me into the Allied Drive area on a monthly basis, however, and I got a lot of stares. It wasn't anything hostile, just shock more than anything, like they couldn't believe this little 5'4" white woman came into their neighborhood. I'm not sure I would have been welcomed as a neighbor though. I suspect my experience would be similar to what you've had in Indianapolis, they'd tolerate me, but I would never be accepted as part of the community.
Both argot and Megan make excellent points, and there is not a huge amount I can add to their fine posts.
I definitely endorse argot's recommendation not to totally eliminate Madison as a possible place to live. One of the most commonly thrown accusations that we hear is "Madison isn't really a city, it's just a small town with delusions of grandeur," and while I can't really agree with that statement in its entirety, I do have to say that there is much more of a small-town feel to this community than I've experienced in any other city of similar size. You may not feel as out of place as you think here.
Among the other communities that argot mentions, Sun Prairie has a very nice small-town feel and they work hard to keep their downtown area vibrant, updated and pedestrian/bike-friendly. My daughter has lived there for the past couple of years, and in many ways likes it better than Madison itself. Waunakee, on the other hand, is more truly a bedroom community; there really isn't a town center in the sense that I think of it, and most Waunakee residents wind up commuting to Madison or other cities for jobs, stores, services and so on. Oregon is very much a small village, and is rapidly becoming quite upscale. There are lots of McMansions there with prices to match, and it's also a bit of a haul from Madison. If you were going to live that far away, I'd recommend Stoughton instead, which has a wonderful historic town center, a strong Norwegian heritage, and I think more a sense of identity than Verona. Cross Plains is another nice little historic village, semi-rural, but far enough away from the center of Madison that I wouldn't want to drive that distance in the wintertime. Cottage Grove is an odd sort of mixture; there's a historic village center with beautiful old neighborhoods and shops, and there's also a bunch of burgeoning new big flashy development. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I know some folks who like living there very much indeed.
As for the university itself, there is a very active and vibrant Native American presence on campus, with several NA student organizations that do a great deal of outreach and work with the university community. I know a young lady who graduated from law school a couple of years ago, who was very active in the Wunk Sheek and ILSA groups during her grad school tenure there, and she was quite impressed with both. If you haven't yet perused this link: Student Organizations - American Indian Studies : American Indian Studies, I'd recommend you check it out.
Good luck to you in your search, and if you identify more questions as you narrow the options down, please do come back and ask away. We'll do our best to help. Oh, and by the way - hearty felicitations on your impending nuptials, and may you and your beloved enjoy many decades of happiness together, wherever you settle!
Since you're living in Indianapolis, you're probably familiar with the concept of Midwestern nice. People will be friendly, say hi, etc, but they might be a little closed off.
Actually people in Indianapolis aren't all that friendly as a group but I know what you mean from growing up in rural Indiana. The people who like Indy like to say things like "all the benefits of a big city without all of the drawbacks and with small town friendliness!" but after you live here for more than a few weeks you rapidly realize that it's pretty much the opposite. People- especially under the age of 40- here are cold, distant and there's a distinct lack of any sense of community. I don't know what small town they are using as an example but I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere nice.
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As for the university itself, there is a very active and vibrant Native American presence on campus, with several NA student organizations that do a great deal of outreach and work with the university community. I know a young lady who graduated from law school a couple of years ago, who was very active in the Wunk Sheek and ILSA groups during her grad school tenure there, and she was quite impressed with both. If you haven't yet perused this link: Student Organizations - American Indian Studies : American Indian Studies, I'd recommend you check it out.
That's really cool. My big headache here I think has been more that people look at me and go "white guy" rather than a bigotry against Native Americans per se. There actually was one of our neighbors (an adult) who made a comment about "But you don't look like an Indian?" and his mother (who I will miss when we move) responded with "And I didn't raise you to look like an ***hole either." It's kind of a peculiar situation in that I self-identify as a minority (actually twice over given that I'm also Jewish) but pass for "some white dude". It makes it kind of nice but I catch the whole "Blame whitey!" attitude from time to time and have to explain that I understand completely since my ancestors were deported and the previous generations of my fellow Jews...well, you know that part of history.
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Oh, and by the way - hearty felicitations on your impending nuptials, and may you and your beloved enjoy many decades of happiness together, wherever you settle!
Thank you! We have a year before it actually happens (September of next year) but we're in the middle of planning the whole thing at the moment.
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Of the Madison suburbs, Middleton and Monona are the most city-esque. I don't really know how to describe that better than saying they have parts that I would consider walkable, plus they are close enough to the city to have public transit.
That's very cool. I was hoping to be able to find a way to either use public transit solely or to be able to do a "park and ride" sort of arrangement if we ended up living out in the suburbs. I've gotten used to Indianapolis where the city proper treats the suburbs by basically flipping them the bird in terms of cooperation for anything practical but expects them to help pay for "our sports teams".
Thank you all for the input and suggestions of other places to check out.
I was hoping to be able to find a way to either use public transit solely or to be able to do a "park and ride" sort of arrangement if we ended up living out in the suburbs.
Sun Prairie doesn't have Madison Metro service actually into the city (or at least I don't believe they do), but there are routes that run through the American Center which is on the boundary between Madison and Sun Prairie, so it might suit you as well.
I also know folks who live in communities east of here, who drive in as far as the East Towne Mall parking lot to leave their car, and take the #6 bus right downtown and on to campus and the west side. So using mass transit is definitely doable here, even for suburb-dwellers.
Caveat: the geography of Madison (plonked down right between two huge lakes) makes for some, ah, interesting bus routes. It can be downright frustrating to try to figure out a way to get from one place to another, unless both ends of your trip are right on the same route. But at least the city HAS a mass-transit system, which is more than can be said for the last place we lived.
I self-identify as a minority (actually twice over given that I'm also Jewish)
In that case, you might also be interested in a link to the university's Hillel group, which is another extremely active part of the university community: http://www.uwhillel.org/home.aspx.
If you and your fiancee decide on an in-person visit, let us know. I remember a thread a while back that asked about synagogs in town, and several knowledgeable people offered good comments about what the different congregations were like. I can dig it out of the archives if you'll be in the area and would like to connect with the city's Jewish community while you're here.
Last edited by 7G9C4J2; 07-24-2012 at 06:38 PM..
Reason: Added link to Hillel
But at least the city HAS a mass-transit system, which is more than can be said for the last place we lived.
From looking at the link, it seems like it's more functional even given the geographical quirks than the half-***ed system we put up with here in Indy. Someone had the bright idea that you should shut down a lot of the routes right as people are getting off of work because "that's when demand decreases!"
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unless both ends of your trip are right on the same route
Honestly, the only place I/we would likely be taking mass-transit is down to campus and back.
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