Santa Clara, CA or Madison, WI (Verona, Winter: environment, condos, travel)

[gsilver]

I'm a new graduate from rural New Mexico with a Master's in computer science, with about 8 months of software development experience. Right now, I am expecting offers from Epic Systems in Madison, WI and Quadbase in Santa Clara, CA within the week.

Here are some of the factors I am considering:

Cost of living/Salary - CA is much more expensive, but the salary would be lower. Quadbase in Santa Clara quoted around the 60s, while Epic quoted in the 70s. The exact pay TBD, but if Epic makes an offer, I'm planning on at least asking for a counter-offer from Quadbase.

Temperature / weather - I was in Wisconsin about a week ago, and the temperatures didn't bother me too much. I am fond of snow.

Geographical area - I didn't get to see much of Santa Clara, since I flew in and out on the same day as the interview, but I'm fond of California in general. The scenery in Madison was nice, but I would probably miss the mountains.

Boat ownership - Madison is directly on the lake (2 of 'em!), but the surface of the lakes also freeze in the winter, so I could only go boating for part of the year and would need one that I could transport. CA, on the other hand, is bay-area, expensive, and available year-round.

Open space - Santa Clara is very crowded, while Madison is much more rural by comparison. Both are a lot larger than what I'm used to (rural New Mexico). There's also the California wilderness just south of town, which is a huge plus.

The company itself - In terms of product quality and company culture, Epic Systems seemed a lot better, and it definitely offered the better working environment. Quadbase's product didn't impress me very much.

Career advancement - Epic prides itself in a horizontal structure, which means that there may be limited advancement, but they try to give employees the opportunity to find a niche, whether it's managing projects or people or just to code. Other employment in the area may be difficult to find. The flip-side is that it looks like a heck of a good start. Quadbase is a small company, but Silicon Valley looks good on a resume, and there are a ton of other companies in the area.

Hours per week - Both companies want more than 40, and consider people who work "only" 40 to be slackers (Epic is more interested in meeting project deadlines). I guess that's to be expected in software development.

Development languages - Quadbase uses Java, while Epic uses Cache and VB, with a slow transition to .NET. I would expect Java to be more useful in the long run.

Then there are posts like this: The cult of Epic | Dane101


If I were to work at Epic Systems, I would be interested in more long-term employment, while I would expect to switch jobs several times in the bay area. I'm leaning towards Santa Clara at this point because of future job opportunities, proximity to the mountains, and warmer temperatures.

Any advice?

[MidwesternBookWorm]

From your post, it sounds to me as though the aspects of the decision that you give the most weight to are those relating to the actual jobs and the relative long-term potential for advancement, either with the same employer or with another one. I'm not sure that a forum about the communities is going to be much help in that regard.

That said, however, quality of life questions are still important to ask, because even if you spend 50 or 60 hours a week at work, as many of us in the professional world do, that still leaves over 100 hours per week that you'll spend away from work. And having lived in a community and region that I simply hated, I can attest that your life will be considerably more enjoyable if you live somewhere that you like.

You don't mention a spouse/partner or children who would be moving as well. If you are a family of one, you may also want to compare the potential dating pool of the two communities. (I can't help you there, I'm afraid, I haven't been on the dating scene for many decades now.)

Good luck in any case, and I hope you wind up where the fit is right.

[everythingnothing]

I'm wondering if you'd even be in Madison at all.
Epic Systems currently has a facility on Science Drive on the near west side of Madison, but I believe that their entire operation is moving to their giant new complex in Verona. While they may still market this job as being in "Madison," it definitely is not. The new building is in the no-man's-land between Madison and Verona that used to be just cornfields, and is now a huge sprawl of vinyl-clad subdivisions and cookie cutter condos. If you live in any proximity to work in order to minimize your commute, you'll spend most of your life in Sprawlville, very far from all the amenities that make Madison great.
Definitely check out exactly where you'd be living and working, because if I'm right, you'll have to drive about 25 minutes to access anything beyond big box stores and chain restaurants.

[losercore]

having moved from California to Madison myself, I would say Madison if you like nice people and more for your money (Even though Madison is pretty high priced for the Mid West)

California if you like weather. Although there is a lot of rain in Northern Cali. Madison has pretty Falls/early Winter. The summers are a little stormy and it seems everyone in the mid west has allergies. I got them just moving here.

I think you would be able to do more in Madison with a 70 range than even a 70 range in Cali.

Good luck

[Chelito23]

It sounds to me like you already have your mind made up and prefer Sta. Clara...

I agree, for nice people and a human touch, Madison is the choice. For networking, new jobs, better weather and higher cost of living with lower pay, try California. I also have to wonder what kind of lifestyle you will have in Cali with the lower pay, near the Bay area, and working over 40 hours a week. It might not be bad to start out here, make bank and then make the move when you can afford California and will have more time and money to enjoy it?

[gsilver]

Epic formally offered today.

What sorts of hiking and biking can I find around Madison?
How far do you need to travel to get to forest or mountains?

[Lillietta]

In good weather, I think you can have it all except the mountains. Congratulations!

[tchemgrrl]

Congrats on your job offer--I've just been going through the same process, and with a lot of the same pros and cons to balance.

Madison regularly gets voted one of the top places to bike in the US. I consider myself a very timid cyclist and I'm quite comfortable tooling around everywhere except the far west and east sides (where the malls are). You can get pretty much anywhere in town on the paths or the bike lanes, you can get a sense from the bike maps.

The area is pretty flat, geographically, but Devil's Lake has enough topography to go rock climbing. I was strictly an indoor climber when climbed but I have some friends who go up there every weekend. It's about an hour's drive north. Forested areas aren't hard to find--the UW Arboretum is smack in the middle of town and is lovely, though a bit over-populated on nice days.

As mentioned upthread, Epic is mostly located in Verona, which is a small suburb of Madison that is growing rapidly because of the company. If you choose to live close to work you'll still have what looks to me like a nice quiet place to live, but it is very different from living in downtown Madison. Personally I don't think I'd want to live there if I was just starting out, though it would have more appeal if I had a family and was looking for a place to settle.

[rce]

My brother actually just started a new job at Epic this fall. He lives downtown on the isthmus and it only takes him around 20 minutes to get to work out in Verona. While downtown living is more expensive, it's definitely the place to be socially.

[Wellstone]

there are no mountains but as you go a little west of the city the topography changes a quite a bit and there are all sorts of "mounds"

for biking, there are bike trails everywhere. the ones near the city are fairly flat but i think there are trails going all the way out to governor dodge state park in dodgeville (which is a nice place to bike). you will always see a lot of bike traffic around lake monona in the summer

forests are sort of hit or miss in southwest wisconsin. there are some wooded areas but the heavily wooded areas are in the northern part of the state, a good 2 hours north. of course what i consider a forest to what somebody else thinks may be two completely different things. the "state" and "national" forests would all be 2+ hrs to the north. i guess there's some around the dells but it really depends what you are looking for.