Possibly moving to Madison (Milwaukee, New Glarus: appointed, renting, how much)

[baboo]

Hi, I may be moving to Madison, WI for school. I have been accepted into the graduate school at UW-Madison and wanted to know what the city is like. I looked up some stuff on Wikipedia, but I'm afraid it really doesn't tell you what a city is really like. I am from the West Coast (Seattle) is the Midwest anything like the West Coast? I read some other posts and all the people from the East Coast seem pretty disappointed. Any west coasters have an opinion to life in Madison? I am interested in knowing about the lay-out of the city, is it confusing or is it pretty simple? The weather. People... are people generally friendly or hostile... and if hostile, to any race/creed/gender/sexual orientation in particular? Is it easy to make friends? Cultural events as well as amusement. If anyone has any info on any of these matters, please drop me a line. Much appreciated!

[Chelito23]

Madison is a liberal and progressive city in a conservative region, the Midwest.

I think when people move to Madison from the coasts, they are only disappointed because they miss "home." Many people want to move to a place that is identical to where they previously lived, and they will be disappointed anywhere that isn't home.

Madison is original, and an acquired taste. It is the home of the wierd, where all people and things fly. If you like the trendiness, the liberal viewpoints, the social awareness and sense of community, you will find those qualities here.
Will they be a replica of Seattle? Probably not.

The layout of the city is somewhat strange. The downtown is on an isthmus, and the city grid pattern in that area is designed like a bicycle tire with spokes, many square blocks and diagonal cross streets and one ways. It is somewhat confusing, but it is not overly large to overwhelm you. The rest of the city is just suburban sprawl with standard main roads, malls, homes and stores.

Most of the city is very green with lots of trees, hills and lakes. It is very clean and relatively upscale. This is the land of NIMBYism, so you will hear a lot of complaints about things that are really nonsense or just non issues elsewhere.

People are friendly overall, at least on a superficial level. No overt hostility, and I would say acceptance of the weird, different and unique (ex hippies) speaks to this. There are many artists and gays living here, so that says something too.

I think it is no harder or easier to meet friends here than anywhere else. It all depends on your interests and how outgoing you are, and the type of people and situations you surround yourself in.

Regarding entertainment, there are plenty of outdoor parks, trails and sporting options available. There are several malls, movie theaters, some museums and quirky stores downtown. Milwaukee is about and hour and a half away, and Chicago is 2 and a half for any bigger city fixes.

Hope this helps. Read the Madison dot com website to check out the local papers and get a feel for the area.

[Drover]

I've never lived on the West Coast so I can't give a detailed basis of comparison, but I can answer some of your questions anyway.

The city's layout is a little confusing at first. If you look at a map of the city, you'll find that here are 8 streets that radiate out from the Capitol square, so there are a lot of diagonal intersections and a few six-way intersections. There are also a lot of one-way streets in the city core. Furthermore, a quick look at the map you'll find that the city core is squeezed between two pretty good-sized lakes so some streets are contoured around the lake shores -- something you're no doubt familiar with in Seattle. The university sits right on the edge of the city core, so you'll almost certaintly be spending quality time in the downtown area. It shouldn't take you longer than a couple months to get the lay of the land and figure out how to most efficiently get from point A to point B, which streets go one way in which direction, et cetera.

Madisonians are some of the most friendly people on Earth. One memory I will always have of living in Madison is when we got a 10-inch snowfall and the whole neighborhood poured out onto the street and started shoveling their own and each other's cars out of the snow. This probably illustrates the town's friendliness better than I could otherwise try to describe it.

Speaking of snow, winters are brutal by Seattle standards. Average overnight lows in January is 8 degrees. That's average, meaning you'll have plenty of nights each winter that get below zero. I remember a few days when I lived there that never got above zero all day. We seem to be getting more and more mild winters around here, but the forecast in Madison for the rest of this week is not expected to get higher than 20 degrees and low temps are expected to get as low as zero. Make sure you have a winter coat before the middle of October. Seriously.

As for the general culture, Madison is probably the closest you're going to get to West Coast-style liberalism in this area. It is often referred to as "The Berkeley of the Midwest." It's not going to be an exact replica, but there will be hints of familiarity. Tie-dye, Birkenstocks, drum circles, and dreadlocks are fairly common sights, weather permitting in some cases. There are co-ops, organic grocery stores, indie book stores, head shops, and the like. There really aren't any other places like it out here with the possible exception of Ann Arbor MI. Madison is an island of progressivism in a sea of standard rural Midwest conservatism. The respective camps generally keep to their own side of the fence so there's not a lot of culture clash going on. My understanding that the same type of thing - liberal cities surrounded by rural conservative areas - is a pretty common thing in the West Coast too, so maybe that's something you're familiar with.

[Drover]

I made a list of pros and cons in another thread. I'm going to post them here with edits in [brackets] to provide some relevance to your particular situation. Here goes:

Pros:

• An unemployment rate of less than 3% [maybe not as important to a grad student as a job applicant, but it helps if you're looking for part-time work]
  
• The winters may suck (that's a matter of opinion, I happen to like cold snowy winters) but the summers are fabulous
  
• Lots of outdoor recreational opportunities in the city itself (two large lakes and some nice parks) or within a short drive (every corner of the state provides its unique opportunities be it hiking, biking, hunting, fishing, canoeing/kayaking, rock climbing, river rafting, et cetera)
  
• Hanging out on UW Union terrace overlooking the lake on a summer evening, having a beer with a friend or two
  
• If you're a beer snob, Madison has the best local beer scene in all the Midwest -- nearby world-class breweries include Great Dane (right downtown), Capital, New Glarus, Tyranena, Lake Louie, and probably a couple others I've forgotten. [It's not as good as the Seattle/Northwest beer scene, but it's the best you're going to find in the Midwest]
  
• Lots of community support for local business gives the city a unique, eclectic personality and keeps it from being a generic chain-store Hell
  
• Lots of good restaurants, particularly ethnic restaurants
  
• Unbeatable farmer's market on the Capitol Square on Saturdays in the summer. Best. Produce. Evar. (Plus venison jerky and fresh cheese curds that squeek against your teeth when you bite into them. )
  
• Amazingly good schools for a city of its size that compete with the best suburban school districts the state has to offer [probably not a big concern for you since you probably don't have kids]

Cons:

• Insane housing costs, especially for a city of its size and location [probably not much cheaper than Seattle]
  
• The insufferable self-righteousness that wafts from the university, but at least it's less militant than I've observed from other major universities [probably more tolerable from the inside than from the outside ]
  
• Speaking of universities, UW is both surprisingly civilized and quite rambunctious. The former element rules downtown during the day; unfortunately the latter takes over downtown at night, especially on weekends
  
• Sky-high property taxes. BUT, for once you actually get what you pay for in the way of high-quality schools, nice clean parks and a sound, well-maintained infrastructure [probably not applicable in your case as you're likely to be renting]
  
• Traffic through downtown can be a snarl during rush hour, but compared to major metros like Chicago, DC, L.A., NYC, and whatever, it's a minor inconvenience.

[baboo]

Thank you so much for responding, I really did not except such a detailed and quick response... so thank you. From what you have told me Madison sounds a lot like Seattle, the layout, the atmosphere, and even the scenery. How strange.

Chelito23: I know what you mean. Many people come to Seattle from other places and are disappointed for the same reasons. I know that no place will be exactly like Seattle. I would just like a place where I can feel at home, safe, and comfortable. I am currently living in Siena, Italy and I definately do not feel at home here. It sounded great when I moved here, I just did not realize that Italy had a problem with rampant racism. I am an Asian-American, so everyone here thinks I am Chinese... therefore I am scum. In the last 5 years they have had a large flux of Chinese immigration. So basically everyone treats me like garbage. Luckily, the states are more PC and don't yell racial slurs at you in the street and shopping centers like they do here. But it looks like I don't need to worry, sounds great! Thanks!

Drover: Wow so much information. It sounds great really. Actually the only con I can really see is the winter. I am not used to cold winters. If you see a frozen asian girl planted to the sidewalk in Madison in the winter of 2007-2008.. that'll be me. But from what you tell me, it sounds a lot like Seattle. Seriously, I remember I went to Chicago for a few months and it was nothing like Seattle. Of course Chicago is a bigger metropolis than Seattle is... And I sure the snobbery and self-righteousness from the University would be more tolerable inside than out.. and if not... I am a Seattlite...we don't get our panties in a bunch over things like that. Oh and the housing... yes. I looked at a few sites for housing and it is terribly expensive. I think it is more expensive than Seattle which is strange because population-wise Madison is considerably smaller.(I wikipedia-ed it...hehe)

One more question. I know it sounds weird but seriously I am a magnet for mosquitoes. Are there many mosquitoes in Madison in the spring/summer time? I ask this because I get attacked by mosquitoes wherever I go... and receive so many bites that sometimes I need to go to the hospital. Terrible.

Thanks again!!! Maybe we'll run into eachother in Madison, of course we'll never know will we?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by baboo

Thank you so much for responding, I really did not except such a detailed and quick response... so thank you. From what you have told me Madison sounds a lot like Seattle, the layout, the atmosphere, and even the scenery. How strange.

One difference you will notice in the scenery: in Madison, there is barely a hill in sight. There is a section of the Isthmus to the Northwest of the Capitol called "Mansion Hill." (Don't be fooled by the name -- 90% of the "mansions" have been subdivided into student housing. It's a very nice area as far as student housing goes though.) This so-called "hill" is about the biggest elevation change in the city... and I'd guess it measures about 30 feet.

Funny you should ask about mosquitoes. I just discussed them in a Milwaukee city thread.

Mosquitoes can get quite bad in the summer, depending on how much rain comes in the spring. The more spring rain, the bigger the summer mosquito "crop" if you will. It gets worse the further north you go. One summer it got so bad up in the Northern part of the state that you could literally hear the sky start to buzz just after sundown.

When the mosquitoes are bad, you have three options:

• Stay indoors in the evenings
• Enjoy the summer evenings by bathing in DEET. (Don't let anyone tell you that Avon Skin-So-Soft is an effective mosquito repellent. It is -- for about 20 minutes. Nothing works better than DEET, and the higher the concentration the better, because it lasts longer. I have stuff that is 85% DEET and it's a Godsend during summer trips to the Northwods.)
• Enjoy the summer night without mosquito repellant while the mosquitos chew you alive and/or carry you off.

Mosquitoes can be a problem during the day as well, but nighttime is their primary snacking hours. And again, they are a summer problem only. They don't start to show up until about June and are gone with the first frost in the autumn.

[baboo]

Ha. That is so strange. There is a part of Seattle called Capital Hill and there within there is a part called the Mansion district. How weird. Well, a flat city is wonderful. Tell me are there many bikers (cyclists) in Madison? There are tons in Seattle, but they are just crazy because Seattle doesn't have hills... it has mountains and cliffs. Impossible to bike around there.

[Drover]

Rumor has it that there are more bicycles in Madison than cars. Whole lanes on main thoroughfares are devoted to bicycles. You know the truly devoted bicyclists from the rest because they're the crazy bastards who ride to school/work when it's 4 degrees out. The even crazier ones have studded bicycle tires so they can ride even when there's snow/ice. Even the bitter cold can't completely quash the bicycle culture there.

(P.S. see my previous thread where I added info about mosquitoes.)

[Drover]

Sorry to hear about your problems in Italy. I think sometimes Americans have a romanticized notion about race relations in Europe because we often fancy them being more progressive societies than our own. In many ways, they are. That is one area where quite often they are not. I live in an area of Chicago that has a lot of immigrants from Poland and Korea. Some of the newcomer's attitudes toward minorities (or in the case of the Koreans, other minorities) is breathtaking. The things they'll say out loud in public because they don't know any better just blows my mind. For all of America's continuing problems with race relations, it seems like we're still one of the more enlightened societies on the subject.

[baboo]

It is amazing what people say from pure ignorance. Really. Of course racism still exists in the States and really I can't say we're handling our immigration situation any better or worse than anyone else. We have our own way of doing things, but the general attitude towards immigrants and non-italians here is negative. I came to study the language, history, and art. I really never thought that my race would effect my choice to come here. I am from Seattle, Asians are everywhere... Koreans are everywhere. I just don't think about it. Thanks for warning me about the mosquitoes. I am going to have to buy an industrial-sized barrel of DEET. During the summers here, I usually bathe in DEET, I am probably slowly poisoning myself!