Moving from Orange County, CA to Madison ? (Milwaukee, Burlington: middle-class, 2009)

[mommyntheoc]

My husband is looking at a job in Madison after he finishes his PhD in the upcoming months. We are trying to decide between several cities so we'd appreciate any input.

Some facts about us: We're white (not that it matters but apparently it does in some midwest and southern locations), late 20s, 2 very young children, profession: scientist. We hate living in southern CA - we dislike constant sunshine, we prefer seasons! We are most comfortable in 20-50 degrees rather than 80+. We don't like beaches, we prefer mountains and forests. We focus on an eco-friendly lifestyle (i.e. we garden our own veggies & are looking to implement a gray water system in our house). We like camping and hiking, prefer walking to get our groceries at a corner market, and take evening walks with our two babies (ages 1 & 2) every evening! We love colonial, victorian, and plantation style. AIR QUALITY and pollution is the #1 issue for us...we're tired of pink "smog" sunsets here on the west coast!

Do you think Madison might be the place for us? If not, do you have any suggestions of other cities?

[Megan1967]

we dislike constant sunshine, we prefer seasons!

We definitely have seasons here and you won't be pestered by that pesky old sun too much of the time.

We are most comfortable in 20-50 degrees rather than 80+.

That will cover most of the year, but are you prepared for days when it is below zero for days on end? That happens quite a bit in Jan & Feb. You might not be aware of the term "wind-chill-factor" but it refers to how cold it feels due to the wind. It is often way below zero when you factor in the wind.

We don't like beaches, we prefer mountains and forests.

We have forests, but no mountains, not even close.

We focus on an eco-friendly lifestyle (i.e. we garden our own veggies & are looking to implement a gray water system in our house). We like camping and hiking, prefer walking to get our groceries at a corner market, and take evening walks with our two babies (ages 1 & 2) every evening! We love colonial, victorian, and plantation style. AIR QUALITY and pollution is the #1 issue for us...we're tired of pink "smog" sunsets here on the west coast!

It is people like you that make me like Madison. I think you will find many like minded people here.

Do you think Madison might be the place for us? If not, do you have any suggestions of other cities?

Are Portland or Seattle on your list?

[Bowie]

How do you feel about snow and ice? Madison and all of Wisconsin has a long winter season, with snow cover for weeks on end and weeks of days each year where the high temperature is below freezing.

I know plenty of people here in Texas who have gray water systems, but I never heard of any when I lived in Madison. There isn't much need to water the landscape when it's covered with snow.

I agree with Megan that you'll find plenty of like-minded people there. I just question whether you'll be able to adjust to Madison's version of the change of seasons after living in SoCal.

[MidwesternBookWorm]

Both Megan and Bowie are correct about the harsh winters. If you haven't experienced a Midwestern January, it's hard to imagine how cold it gets. Not a problem indoors, of course, but it can be quite an adjustment for folks like you who enjoy being out-of-doors as much as possible.

That said, some of us thrive on it. I'd rather be too cold than too hot - I can always put on a heavier sweater or add a pair of long johns under my pants, but when it's 100 degrees out, I can take off enough to get myself arrested and still be too darn hot.

Have you ever visited the northern part of the country in the deepest part of winter? If not, you might consider making a short trip to one of the notoriously cold spots in the country in about January, just to see if it's something you think you could tolerate for a couple-three months out of each year.

Aside from the caveat about the cold, though, I think you'd find yourself very much at home in Madison, based on what you describe. Perhaps just a couple more points to add; I love Madison, and I don't ever plan to live anywhere else, but in fairness to someone considering a move here, those are some of the negative aspects that some people perceive and have commented on.

Madison is NOT a large city. That can be either a benefit or a disadvantage, of course, depending on your point of view. For a city of 200K people, it has a lot to offer, but it isn't on a par with Chicago or Milwaukee or the other major Midwestern cities. If you thrive on the bustle and excitement of a big city, you'll probably want to downgrade Madison on your list.

Madison is on the extreme left end of the political spectrum. There are other Wisconsin cities that lean left to a greater or lesser extent, of course, but if you are a moderate or a conservative, you might find Madison a trifle uncomfortable at times.

Madison is home to a very fine state university with somewhere upwards of 40,000 students. While the town vs. gown rivalry is not nearly as intense here as I have seen in some communities, there are still many who deplore the perceived complacency and arrogance in the university community. There is also the small, or at times not so small, matter of the impact of 40,000 18 to 24 year olds in the community. They keep the place lively, that's for sure, but some folks don't appreciate that as much as others.

In any case, good luck in your upcoming move, and if you develop any more specific questions about Madison, c'mon back and post 'em - we'll do our best to respond!

[sondra_finchley]

GO TO VANCOUVER!!!

I live in Madison- its ok. Better than some places Ive lived, not as good as others. But if I had the chance to live in Vancouver over Madison I would take it in a HEARTBEAT. Just to have the massive Stanley Park at my access, and the shopping and bars downtown, and the larger city/neighborhood feel and international connections outside of a larger city would be welcomed. Madison is like Vancouver... in a similar vibe... but on a much, much smaller scale. You would have better outdoor activity options in Vancouver though if you like to hike and camp. Air quality I should think would be similar. Vancouver has Victorian architecture for sure, as well as a more compact core- Madison has expanded out and while we moved to a place where we could access a corner grocery, its a rare part of town. Madison winters are more harsh- Vancouver is more in your comfort zone and you would just get more rain. Last winter we got what, over 100 inches of snow here in Madison and while it was nice at first it just got tiresome by the end.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by mommyntheoc

My husband is looking at a job in Madison after he finishes his PhD in the upcoming months. We are trying to decide between several cities so we'd appreciate any input.

Some facts about us: We're white (not that it matters but apparently it does in some midwest and southern locations), late 20s, 2 very young children, profession: scientist. We hate living in southern CA - we dislike constant sunshine, we prefer seasons! We are most comfortable in 20-50 degrees rather than 80+. We don't like beaches, we prefer mountains and forests. We focus on an eco-friendly lifestyle (i.e. we garden our own veggies & are looking to implement a gray water system in our house). We like camping and hiking, prefer walking to get our groceries at a corner market, and take evening walks with our two babies (ages 1 & 2) every evening! We love colonial, victorian, and plantation style. AIR QUALITY and pollution is the #1 issue for us...we're tired of pink "smog" sunsets here on the west coast!

Do you think Madison might be the place for us? If not, do you have any suggestions of other cities?

It sounds as though you would enjoy Madison very much, but be careful to consider the temperature differences...
Other cities I could recommend: Boston, Burlington, VT ( my hometown, and near the Green Mountains, with the University of Vermont in the city), Seattle, Chicago (although not mountainous)...but if you have an offer from Madison, I urge you to consider it very strongly, as it's a very pleasant middle-class city with a progressive reputation.

[trover]

As someone who's lived in BOTH Madison and Orange County, I can offer some interesting comparrisons:

This sounds like a stereotype, but I think you will find most people a bit nicer and more genuine in Madison than OC. Then again, folks in Los Angeles,Toledo, OH, NYC and Guadalajara... pretty much anywhere are more decent and genuine than OC. Money and bad taste are an ugly combination. That said, also prepare for a MAJOR change in attitude moving from SoCal to one of the Northern states. People are a bit more reserved, and they don't feel compelled to share their life story while waiting in the checkout line.

Also, as the above poster said, Madison being a smaller city has its plusses and minuses. It's pretty safe, takes no time to get anywhere (most folks who complain about traffic in Madison have never been on the 405 at 6 pm and don't understand what traffic is), and there's a lot of cultural instituitions because of the University. BUT when my family moved there from Chicago we had a heck of a time finding a decent restaurant (things seem to have improved last time I visited). Also, once you get a few miles out of town you are really in God's country (i.e. guys in flannel shirts driving huge pickup trucks). Also, if you are offended by people killing things be advised that deer hunting season is HUGE. I hope you like to wear red: the people LOVE all things Badger sports and you will be expected to as well once you arrive.

Finally, in addition to the cold (trust me: I was raised in the midwest and you NEVER really get used to those temperatures. But life does go on) the days are also way shorter in winter. This makes some people depressed.

Now that I've said all these awful things let me end by saying Madison is probably the best place I can think of to raise a family in the entire US (and I've lived all over). Truly a wonderful town.

PS- if Northern cities are your thing, I would also suggest looking at Minneapolis/St. Paul and Chicagoland.

[MILWCITY]

Why would you ever want to live in Madison,WI???

It's warmer in Milwaukee during winter due to the "lake breeze" which you know as the sea breeze. On the flipside it's cooler during the day if you live right next to the lake 0-4miles. It can be as much as 10-15 degress warmer in Madison than the East Side of Milwaukee. I live a stones throw from the lake and during the winter when western Milwaukee is getting hit with snow I could be getting rain, or it might be the difference of 5 inches of less snow which is a plus. Also we have the Urban Heat Island Effect going for us which is nice! Also in winter when Madison is 15 degress Milwaukee will be 30+ . On Milwaukee's eastside spring seems to start later and summer seems to last longer due to lake effect. But when the winds shift we will be hit with a typical northeastern snow storm and just get dumped on from Lake effect snow, which is rare on the west side of the lake but it still happens every year at least once.

[IcemanJB]

I was born and raised here in Madison. As long as you're ready for the brutal winters here, I think you'll love it! Spring and Fall, the weather is never boring. I think just 3 or 4 weeks ago we had temps in the 70s. I woke up yesterday to 2 inches of snow on the ground. Summers are pretty much perfect (occassional nasty T-storms, scattered tornado warnings).

It can get cold here. I mean COLD. Two Februarys ago I remember a week where the daily high was around 0 degrees F with wind chills wayyyy below zero. Walking to class SUCKED haha. Some people get depressed by that sort of thing, so fair warning. I don't mind it, since I love snow.

I actually spent a summer working in Orange County, CA. I think another thing you'll notice is the personalities of the people here. Most everyone is open and friendly. I didn't find people in OC very friendly at all; maybe I'm just spoiled by it here.

I'll just finish by saying I'm thankful mom and dad raised me here. My HS was awesome, and of course who can forget the UW?!? I graduate from there in May!

EDIT: I want to second the notion of Chicagoland as well. I'd live there in a heartbeat.

[ulver]

I was in Orange Co., CA. back in 1990, with the Marshal's Service. Pretty nice. Los Angeles proper, was already heading toward the third-world, and has certainly arrived now. The houses in OC, were the size of a matchbox, and still went for 250K!

My next stint after Atlanta, is going to be Madison, WI. in 2009. I'm sure my Confederate t-shirts will reduce liberals to tears. Half an hour out of Madison, and there are more "good ol' boys" than Georgia. Beer drinkin', deer killin', ...well, all the things that made America great! NOTHING like Madison (thankfully)...

The winter>? I'm told to buy a "personal snow brush"... No way around it: Brutal Winters...