Madison or STL-need advice! (Verona, Evansville: sales, apartments, insurance)

[Melindalou7]

Hello all! Really glad to have found these forums-they're a big help when you're looking to relocate. I'm currently in a position where my job is being moved to either Madison, WI or St. Louis, MO. Office considerations aside (my company's HQ is in Madison & the office in STL is smaller, but on the West side of the city), I'm having a horrible time deciding which is better, namely because I know they are totally different in almost every aspect. STL is a major metro city & Madison is a mid size northern Midwest town. I'm wanting opinions, though I know that, yes, ultimately it's my choice to make. A bit about me:

-I'm 28, engaged and childless.

-I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different. That being said, while I like Iowa, I DESPISE winter. I can deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life since I've been dealing with it for 8 years now, but still not a fan in anyway. Definitely won't be out skiing or sledding or anything else that involves interaction with the cold.

-I'm originally from Evansville, IN., so in terms of climate and regional culture, I'm familiar with what STL has to offer. Even after all this time in Iowa, I still consider myself a southern Midwest woman and am most familiar with that culture. Plus, I'd be a lot closer in distance to family, which is nice.

-I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are large. While dog parks are great and both cities offer them, I really want a place that provides trails and paths to walk them. Doesn't have to be nature-filled and tree-lined, but walking the parking lots at the local strip mall isn't going to cut it for me.

My concerns about both places:

-STL crime. I handle property claims for the STL region currently, so I'm somewhat familiar with the bad & good areas. And I have common sense-it's not like I'd go jogging alone at 1AM. I know any large city has crime, I just want to know if it's an everyday fact of life or something that can, for the most part, be avoided-without having to move to Troy.

-Medical facilities in STL. In Des Moines, our major hospitals have clinics in various locations around town with labs and different Dr.'s. I've seen a similar set up in Madison, but wasn't sure about STL. If I live in Ballwin and my insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish, do I have to drive into the city to see a Dr or are there clinics around town?

-Traffic & general population congestion in STL. As I said, I live In Des Moines and come from an even smaller town in Indiana. I did live in Phoenix for 2 years...and hated it (except for the weather). Just WAY too many people for my taste. Obviously I would look to live near where I work so the commute wouldn't kill me, but I'm a little concerned about being overwhelmed by the size of STL.

-Housing & living costs in Madison. I'm trying to find an apartment that takes large dogs and won't break my budget and that's a little like trying to find an invisibility cloak. And even when I look at houses, I'm a little surprised at how little you get for your money. My current salary is modest-$50K-just how expensive is it to live in Madison?

-Shopping in Madison. And I don't mean brand names or anything. It seems like, for the most part, people there live in suburbs and commute into the city. While there's a lot in Madison, some of these suburbs I looked at have almost nothing in terms of grocery & general goods stores. Not that a Walmart on every corner is a good thing, but is it easy to get supplies or do you have to make a 30 minute trek to Madison every time you need toilet paper?

-Job Opportunities and the economy in both places. Though I have a job, my fiancé would relocate with me and he'd need something. We currently work for the same company, so there's the chance he'll be able to find something with them, but, if he doesn't, do both cities offer a robust job market? I realize given the current state of the economy, now is not the best time to gauge job markets, but do your best on this. And looking 5-10 years down the road, do you see the economies of these cities improving or getting worse?

I'm pretty flexible in terms of what's important to me. I just want a place that's safe and has some economic security with a decent cost of living. Would love warmer weather, but will deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life. Also, I have visited both places, so I've seen, to an extent, what they have to offer. Now I just want to hear from ppl who actually live in these cities and can give me their perspective. I appreciate and welcome all opinions and advice! Thank you!

[Megan1967]

Speaking as someone who also despises winter I would still have to say that Madison is your better bet.

50K would support you in a nice life style here though it might be hard to save much depending on your spending habits.

Finding a place that accepts dogs will be a challenge, however. I would almost recommend buying, but the market here is so crummy that once you buy you're probably stuck here until it turns around and God knows when that will be. The local humane society used to have a page of pet friendly apartments, but when I went to find it today there was only 2 companies listed, both with bad reps in the area. Apparently they are selling space on this page now. Great community service dchs! (read into this heavy sarcasm). Your best bet is to try Craig's list or the local papers and find places that are own managed.

I don't think you should discount the city itself. I think you are wrong in your impression that most people commute in from outlying areas. I actually only know of one person who does and I've lived here for over 20 years.

The good news is we have awesome dog parks, both city and county. There is one by Verona that is just beautiful. It' huge, has both prairie and rocky out cropping. The trails are very well kept up, too.

Madison is also one of the safest cities you could find. Of course it has it's bad areas, but nothing like St.Louis.

For a city it's size there are also a lot of entertainment options ranging from high brow to down home. The music scene is quite diverse. There are many good, locally owned restaurants. There are tons of community festivals, most with free admission. Decent shopping for a city this size, though definitely not Chicago.

[MidwesternBookWorm]

You're not the first person to compare the two cities; last spring, someone else started threads in both the St. Louis and the Madison fora, and got some interesting answers. You can check them both out here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/st-lo...-st-louis.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/madis...w-madison.html

Of course, some things - economy, job market, housing - have changed since then, and they bear mentioning.

Madison's economy is still one of the stronger ones in the Midwest, relying as it does on state government, the university, a surprising number of R&D firms, and some old-fashioned manufacturing. This is likely to continue to be true, despite the fact that Madison's economy has deflated like most other communities in recent months.

Unemployment finally exceeded 4% in Madison, for the first time in I don't know how long - but it's 6% in most of the rest of the state, and higher yet throughout the country. There are definitely careers where it's hard to get a foot in the door here nowadays, but I'd still rather be jobhunting here than in most other areas.

Housing, in my opinion, is still overpriced for the market. There are a whole heckuva lot of sellers who simply can NOT believe that their lovely Madison homes are not worth what they're asking, and although there's a significantly larger supply of unsold homes out there, prices have not dropped as one would imagine. Frankly, cost of living here is still higher than most other areas, and is likely to remain so. I suspect that you'd find that cost of living in STL is less than it is here. But then, wages are, too.

The only other comment I'd make on the two communities is that I work for a retailer that has locations in both metropolitan areas. Based on what I see in terms of sales (compared within the company and to the same month in prior years), it looks to me as though Madison is weathering this downturn a whole heckuva lot better than St. Louis is. That's a very subjective opinion, of course, and you'll probably hear some differing viewpoints in the St. Louis forum. But I have my reasons for thinking as I do.

Good luck to you in any case, and I hope you wind up living some place that is easy to love! And congratulations, by the way, on your impending nuptials - may you be blessed with many years of joy together. Keep us posted on your decision!