Acupuncture in Madison or Green Bay (Milwaukee, Lake Mills: renting, health insurance, student loan)

[rhizohm]

Hi everyone,

I am a native of the Green Bay area currently residing in Seattle, Washington for school in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. For several reasons, but mostly cost of living and over-abundance of practitioners, I will probably move back to Wisconsin when I finish school. I am trying to decide between Green Bay and Madison.

I know that each has its advantages and disadvantages. In Green Bay there is almost no presence of acupuncture and OM. One person who does practice there does so only 2 days a week, and he said that the market there is tough to make inroads into. (He's not from the area though, and, sadly to say, the Green Bay I grew up near wasn't notorious for its warm welcome of foreigners.) However, with my family connections and familiarity with the area and some good marketing, I think there's a chance people would really open up to Ac/OM.

Ii would certainly be meaningful to bring this medicine to people who don't have access to it. In the long run, and with the incredibly cheap cost of living and property in GB, it could be quite lucrative as well. That helps when you are paying off a massive student loan debt and could create a scene where I can really participate in the development of the community in ways that I have a passion for: medicine, meditation, yoga, aesthetics, etc. Or maybe this is having too high of hopes for a community with a mediocre economy and not much in the way of cultural open-mindedness?

Madison on the other hand is the city I have wanted to live in since I was a teenager. With its established and vibrant cultural scenes, strong and stable economy, and educated and progressively oriented mindset, it really seems like paradise to me--many of the things I love about Seattle, but with a way more reasonable cost of living and, imho, a better climate. However, it seems there are pretty good number of acupuncturists in Madison. Does any body know the Ac/OM "scene" there? Is the market saturated? Also, it seems that Madison is *so* culturally vibrant, that I almost question the meaningfulness, in terms of being a part of the community, of yet another person "doing their thing" there. On one hand it is nice to have a community of colleagues and the like-minded, but when is it just over the top?

The final issue is the cost of housing. Green Bay is really cheap while Madison is getting up there. The median cost of a home is about $50-75 K more expensive in Madison than in Green Bay, depending on where you live in each city, and I imagine taxes are higher in Madison as well. I have never owned a home. All you home owners out there, how much of a difference do you think this makes? Realistically, I will be renting at first, but it is just something to think about.

In short I am hoping for some perspectives on whether people think it makes sense to set up an acupuncture practice in Madison. As well as any thoughtful ways of comparing the culture and economy of Madison vs Green Bay, "getting what you pay" in a community, etc.

Thanks and all the best.

[rhizohm]

So I think I made that question a little more complicated than practical. I guess what I'm really curious about is whether anybody knows what the acupuncture market in Madison is like and whether it would be a good place to practice.

Thanks

[Geechie North]

Your main problem is that at present, Naturopathy, etc, is not recognized as a valid theapy by the state.

That may change soon.

[Dairylander]

I have several friends practicing acupuncture in Madison, and I have watched its rapid growth here in the last decade.
I think it boils down like this:
If you want to start your own clinic and be your own boss, you may be better off up north where the market is less saturated.
But if you actually want to make a living off of your trade, you should definitely move to Madison. There are many clinics and practitioners here, but that's mostly because there is increasing demand. One friend just made a deal with a hospital in Milwaukee to open two new clinics in that area. GHC, a local health care system in Madison, has an entire new building dedicated integrative medicine. I had my regular western medicine health insurance though them, and it got me a 50% discount on all acupuncture, cranio sacral, etc. OM is becoming widely used and covered by insurance companies around here.
I was even able to deduct all my acupuncture fees and herbs on my tax returns this year.
And excuse this generalization, but regarding life outside of work, I would say that a person that's into Eastern Medicine would greatly prefer the culture that exists in Madison over that of Northern Wisconsin.

[rhizohm]

wow, thanks for sharing your knowledge dairylander. more and more i am realizing that starting my own practice isn't going to be a possibility in the beginning, so it is cool to hear that there's so much of an OM culture growing in Madison. next time i visit i hope to meet with some people who might be looking to hire after graduation. i do think it would be more fun, and also a better environment for share knowledge and hone skill, to work near other practitioners.

you are right to say that my preference in culture is madison. but it is also sad to me that my friends and family in green bay don't have access to this medicine-- and by extension how many others don't. but it would seem that being a pioneer is really only possible when you have the resources, which i don't just yet.

thanks!

[Dairylander]

Being an employee for a few years will not only let you hone your acupuncture craft, but you will also gain invaluable knowledge watching the trials and tribulations of your employers from a business perspective.

[Geechie North]

Originally Posted by Dairylander

And excuse this generalization, but regarding life outside of work, I would say that a person that's into Eastern Medicine would greatly prefer the culture that exists in Madison over that of Northern Wisconsin.

I have mixed feelings about this generalization as a resident of Northern Wisconsin.
On one hand, if you are discussing the liberal v conservative thing, well maybe, but maybe not.

Having lived in both areas, I was amazed that in "liberal" Madison the media (local) is about as conservatively controlled as anywhere, while there are pockets (Door County, college towns in Central and Northwestern Wisc), which are equally Progressive as is Madtown.

And, while non-traditional (make that exclusively European traditional) practices are not paid for by our insurances here in the North as a rule (not a network like in Madtown), there are many who use these therapies. For example, my wife and I (in truth, I was a skeptic, but I now go to a Naturopath for med needs for a simple reason: it works. )

But then, there is the other part of culture, apart from the political, and there is a tremendous difference betwixt Madison/Southern Wisconsin and the North.

Each person will find the cultural region which they prefer, and it's impossible (and none of my business) to try to guess which (if either) you would find more amenable. But suffice to say that from a Northern Wisconsin perspective, once you get South of the Dells, you enter a region which we describe as "Illinois Lite."

For better, or worse.

[Dairylander]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

I have mixed feelings about this generalization as a resident of Northern Wisconsin.

Walk into a random bar in downtown Green Bay and tell some guy that you just got off the road and the long drive has sucked the chi right out of you. He'll probably look at you like you're talking Greek.
Do the same in downtown Madison, and he'll probably suggest his favorite qigong pose.

[Geechie North]

Walk into a bar in Lake Mills and say the same thing, vs walking into a bar in Sister Bay with that exact verbage.

My main point is that liberal communities exist in both sections of the state, although there are different culture areas on a North-South divide.