Crime in Madison.... (Raymond: apartment, renters, low crime)

[Allan Trafton]

Yes Dover it starts in the schools. Growing up in Milwaukee in the 60's and 70's I can relate to this topic. This is how it starts. People were saying the same things about Milwaukee years ago. It's not that bad, it's only a few neighborhoods, it only happens to a few, don't worry where not Chicago. Now look how things are. I love Milwaukee and think its a great city,( which I live in) but look at some of the neigborhoods. Due to my job I spend all day in the inner city and I never get used to some of the things I see and witness. There shocking and I've seen these things for years. The point I'm making is - this is how it starts. A few bad blocks turns into more and more bad blocks, a few shootings turn into more and more shootings and a few bad schools become the norm. And the school problem is the worst. Once middle class families lose faith in the schools, then the problems begin. Who fills the void of the lost families? The disfunctional poor. Once a city gets into this hole it is hard as hell to get out. Some neighborhoods never recover and the city is never the same.

[gold*dust1]

Originally Posted by Allan Trafton

Excellent post. I couldn't have put it better myself. Crime is crime. I don't
understand this mindset "I'm from Detroit or Cleveland or wherever therefore crime isn't that big of a deal for me." If someone sticks a gun in my face I'll just as scared no matter where I'm from. I feel sorry for Madison, they don't even realize what there facing. The bad elements from Milwaukee, Chicago, Rockford, Twin Cities etc..are beginning to arrive and they are in denial. It's going to get worse and the neighborhoods are going to continue to go downhill. It will only be a few years until middle class flight from the schools begins. Madison is blinded by their political correctness and will not address this problem in a realistic way. If anything it will make the problems worse.

The Madison police department and city were very successful in turning around the Simpson St. neighborhood and renaming it some years ago. They were the old Allied Dr. Although many of the residents went to the next low rent place available, some went back home. Somerset was cleaned up some too and some others.

There has been "white flight" for years hence the growth in the suburbs. It may not be overly apparent as we are mid sized.

[Megan1967]

I'm hearing more and more young parents say that they are avoiding Madison Metro School District so I'm afraid Allan is correct. It stuns me and I want to argue with them, but my friend who is a teacher concurs with their concerns.

I wasn't aware that Broadway/Simpson had actually improved after the name change (what is it called now?). In fact, it was my impression that it was kind of a joke that people thought changing the name would solve the problem. Am I wrong? Have things significantly improved over there?

[gold*dust1]

Yeah it really has improved. Funny I can't think of the name change (Lake something)? You just don't hear about that neighborhood and crime anymore. I think Monona put alot of pressure on them. They got rid of the slumlords, who allowed many of the problem tenants and turned some of the apts. into condo/townhouses and built some new ones which sit unsold.

They have dabbled with the same concept in Allied too...that home ownership will improve a neighborhood. Broadway/Simpson just isn't the happening crime spot anymore, although I did witness a drug deal go down in the Southtown parking lot once sitting in my car outside Kohls.

I mean I'm not quoting crime stats...but certainly the impression I get when I drive by and from all the reading and following I have done on the subject, which has been covered rather extensively over the years.

I just googled and it is now called Lakepoint.

[ryanj0]

That's fine and I get what you're saying crime is crime and so on and so forth. I am not trying to minimalize it by saying we have far less crime than most cities half our size. All I'm saying is this. When someone asks about an area like a post I saw earlier, someone asks about Badger Rd. I think it was. And the response was that "There are a lot of shootings there". Well, when you just say that it gives the wrong picture. If you say the crime rate is very high there compared to most of the rest of Madison, that is fine. But you don't want to give someone the wrong idea.

Or you could say, there's usually a murder a time or two a year there. That would be even better because then you let them decide if that is high crime or not. But a lot of shootings to some would mean daily and to others, a few a year is a lot. That is all I am saying, because when we paint a vague picture of an area, we paint a potentially bad picture of the city. Last year there were more murders downtown than Badger Rd and Allied Drive.

As far as if we have something bigger coming to us, we may or may not. We, as a city, experience these crime waves all the time, usually in the summer. I remember about 5-7 years ago it was on the Park/Taft street area, and every year when it happens people say, oh it's just gonna keep getting worse and worse. Eventually those will probably be right will it be this year, maybe maybe not, I don't know, but Hammersley was never the lowest crime area of Madison as it is. Certainly, a shooting is out of line, but I lived there 4 years ago and the kids would hang out all hours of the night causing trouble then as well.

And as far as trading apartments, I live on Wickham which is off of Tottenham and has seen it's fair share as well. Who knows, next year the rotation could come here, it cycles around certain areas and this has been one in the past that has seen it's fair share of crime..

[Drover]

Seems like hair-splitting to me. IMO the important part is that they know what areas suck and what areas don't suck. Maybe I'm off-base but I don't think fine-tuning the description of the suckitude from "there's shootings all the time" to "there's a murder or two a year there" is a particularly high priority.

[ryanj0]

Originally Posted by Drover

Seems like hair-splitting to me. IMO the important part is that they know what areas suck and what areas don't suck. Maybe I'm off-base but I don't think fine-tuning the description of the suckitude from "there's shootings all the time" to "there's a murder or two a year there" is a particularly high priority.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought the idea of this forum was to give accurate advice and a more clear picture. My bad... I don't find "shootings all the time" accurate or clear. People should make up their own mind and although I agree these areas are not appealing, I think we should be more accurate in our works. A high priority, well if you don't paint a clear or accurate picture (and depending upon the background of the poster you are talking to, "there's shootings all the time" may not be a clear or accurate picture), then it defeats the whole point of the information. Willl it really take any more time to write the truth in a way in which to paint a clear picture? High priority or not, I find it a courtesy...

[Drover]

You'll go mad trying to ascribe "truth" and "accuracy" to what are subjective impressions. Some of us would appreciate it if you didn't try to take us with you.

Maybe you hadn't considered the possibility that one person's "couple of murders per year" is another person's "shootings all the time." For people coming from places where there are zero murders or shootings per year, two may be plenty enough to satisfy their idea of "all the time." How many would "all the time" be to you, and what makes your answer so much more obviously "accurate" or "truthful" than another person's?

[ryanj0]

Originally Posted by Drover

You'll go mad trying to ascribe "truth" and "accuracy" to what are subjective impressions. Some of us would appreciate it if you didn't try to take us with you.

Maybe you hadn't considered the possibility that one person's "couple of murders per year" is another person's "shootings all the time." For people coming from places where there are zero murders or shootings per year, two may be plenty enough to satisfy their idea of "all the time." How many would "all the time" be to you, and what makes your answer so much more obviously "accurate" or "truthful" than another person's?

What I am saying is something like "2 murders a year" or whatever, would be accurate no matter who you were talking to. "All the time" would be for some people but not others. Given as you don't know the person's background unless they say they were born and raised and always lived in so and so, you do not know if "all the time" would be accurate for them. You do know without a doubt that putting a number on it would be accurate for everyone as long as the number was accurate. Someone from a rural town could consider 2 a year all the time, true, but someone who has spent any considerable amount of time in a regular crime city of half madisons size or bigger would probably not.

That's all I'm saying, seriously, is a couple extra words too much to ask so that anyone and everyone regardless of their background can have a clear picture?? And by the way the crime rates in Madison as a city for murder by year (in the whole city) up to 2006 are as follows:

2001-6 2002-3 2003-8 2004-3 2005-2 2006-4

I did find interesting though that the Madison property crime rate is above the state average, murder is way below.

[Drover]

I know what you're saying. And no matter how many times you say it, I still don't care. But good luck with your little crusade, 'k?