Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I know what you're saying. And no matter how many times you say it, I still don't care. But good luck with your little crusade, 'k?
Fine, we can agree to disagree then... But I state facts.... The FACTS are that it is more accurate to say something specific like "2 a year" than it is to say something general like "a bunch a year"... Come on, you learn this in kindergarten... If you want to paint elusions rather than go with fact, whether the illusions may be true to some, they may not to others, go ahead be my guest... I prefer to give people as accurate of information as possible, especially when they come here for acccurate info... And as accurate as possible means accurate for everyone in the whole world, not just some...
The problem is when the facts do not accurately describe the situation.
Who can best describe the crime issue on the southwest side, someone who lives there and who sees it and who has to deal with it every single day, or someone who doesn't live there, hasn't seen it, doesn't have to deal with it, and who relies solely on city-wide statistics they're probably googling?
It's easy to have fun with your facts when you live miles away from the shootings (and there has been more than one within just a few blocks of each other. It's "shootings", plural, I'm sure you'll have a problem with that because it's not an exact number. Fact is I'm starting to lose count. The latest one was only one block away from the Orchard Ridge Elementary School and it barely made the news, either because of the recurrent nature of firearm crimes in the area or because nobody died).
It's ironic that someone would cling to the facts so desperately in an attempt to be accurate, when it's the inaccuracy and reckless manner in which most of these shootings occur that has my neighbors nervous, especially the ones with young children.
If someone asks for neighborhood information or crime in particular and they aren't told anything about this problem, is that accurate? I dare say no. Was anyone told about problem areas that don't really exist? Nope. And people moving to Madison might wind up on one of these bad streets because they're the only cheap places in town, and just about the only ones with consistent vacancies year-round. That's what happened to me.
Like I said before, the size of the city and it's overall crime statistics don't mean jack-they're just numbers. And those numbers, no matter how low they may be, are worthless if you're the one who ends up being a statistic.
I don't always agree with Drover but I'm with him on this one. I'm done with this conversation too. You can't teach anyone who insists on splitting hairs for the sake of "accuracy" when they have no idea what the reality of the situation is. Quantifying city-wide crime does nothing, absolutely nothing, about the degraded quality of life that the criminal element is causing on the south west side.....well, it does do one thing. It causes people who don't live there to greatly underestimate it.
The invitation, however, still stands. I'll switch apartments with anyone who thinks crime on the southwest side isn't an issue.
The problem is when the facts do not accurately describe the situation.
Who can best describe the crime issue on the southwest side, someone who lives there and who sees it and who has to deal with it every single day, or someone who doesn't live there, hasn't seen it, doesn't have to deal with it, and who relies solely on city-wide statistics they're probably googling?
It's easy to have fun with your facts when you live miles away from the shootings (and there has been more than one within just a few blocks of each other. It's "shootings", plural, I'm sure you'll have a problem with that because it's not an exact number. Fact is I'm starting to lose count. The latest one was only one block away from the Orchard Ridge Elementary School and it barely made the news, either because of the recurrent nature of firearm crimes in the area or because nobody died).
It's ironic that someone would cling to the facts so desperately in an attempt to be accurate, when it's the inaccuracy and reckless manner in which most of these shootings occur that has my neighbors nervous, especially the ones with young children.
If someone asks for neighborhood information or crime in particular and they aren't told anything about this problem, is that accurate? I dare say no. Was anyone told about problem areas that don't really exist? Nope. And people moving to Madison might wind up on one of these bad streets because they're the only cheap places in town, and just about the only ones with consistent vacancies year-round. That's what happened to me.
Like I said before, the size of the city and it's overall crime statistics don't mean jack-they're just numbers. And those numbers, no matter how low they may be, are worthless if you're the one who ends up being a statistic.
I don't always agree with Drover but I'm with him on this one. I'm done with this conversation too. You can't teach anyone who insists on splitting hairs for the sake of "accuracy" when they have no idea what the reality of the situation is. Quantifying city-wide crime does nothing, absolutely nothing, about the degraded quality of life that the criminal element is causing on the south west side.....well, it does do one thing. It causes people who don't live there to greatly underestimate it.
The invitation, however, still stands. I'll switch apartments with anyone who thinks crime on the southwest side isn't an issue.
Yes, but we will have to see if it stops... Recently there have been several shootings in that area, this I know. I am not saying there has been an atypical amount, all I am saying is that judging by how things have gone in the past, when a crime wave hits, it lasts a while and fierce, but then stops... I do live on the Southwest side, I have for quite some time.. Lived through the shooting in Tucson while living on Tucson, then moved to Cimarron and now live on Wickham... All are further southwest than Orchard Ridge...
I am not referencing your area to begin with... Anything on Hammersly from McKenna to Whitney has always (or for as long as I can remember, about 6 years since I knew the area)... Anything down Raymond any further than McKenna has for some time been a higher crime area... I am not trying to justify it, I am just stating how it is... However, shootings are unacceptable and are not commonplace (monthly or bimonthly) anywhere in Madison outside of the annual crime wave which rotates from area to area every year.
Now although the area mentioned above has always had it's fair share of crime or as long as I've known it, I agree shootings have rarely, if ever, been in the mix. However, there is nothing to point that this is any different than the crime wave that happens every year, which means, come August (more than likely before), it will end. Only time will tell, I suppose but at the moment, it seems like the annual crime wave... Now tell me when was the last time there was a shooting on Badger road, and the one before that?? How about Allied?? All I am saying is if you label an area "shootings all the time, I think that should be substantiated.
Shootings in said areas happen maybe once every one to 3 months (either fatal or non fatal, I agree both are just as serious).. To many that would be considered all the time, to many more it would not.. That is all I am saying, it just strikes me as a bad portrayal of Madison as a whole not to substantiate what you mean... But I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.... I don't call it splitting hairs, you can call it what you want, I don't live to please your view of things... I call it giving the city an accurate rep... And also giving certain areas an accurate rep... Allied Drive is still not desirable by most people's standards but has come a LONG way since the Allied Drive even 3 years ago... But no, no one wants to talk about that, because it doesn't paint the picture they want..
Well, from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't actually live there maybe I can add a different view/opinion. In South Bend (nearby, but I don't live there) there is a murder or two daily. When I was searching for cities I was comparing crime rates to South Bend. Comparably, according to statistics Madison is paradise. I had to find a city like that because my parents (one has never left the Indiana-country and the other has lived in several large cities) want me to go someplace safe. The only big city we have a lot of experience with is South Bend, so if it is as bad as South Bend or worse, there's no way I'm going there.
Back to Madison. Statistically compared to South Bend, it is leagues safer. But using common sense I know that all cities have crime, and a city the size of Madison is going to have bad neighborhoods, which is why I joined these forums.
So for a city its size, Madison is very safe. But a farm girl like me who has never experienced shootings and drug dealers? One shooting is too many shootings. I would never be able to handle it, at least in the beginning.
I'm certain that someone moving from another big city could be deceived by phrasing like "all the time". But "one or two deaths a year" could be deceiving to someone like me.
Instead of arguing abut this, which is kind of silly, make as much information available as possible. You could say, "There are only 1 or 2 deaths a year, but shootings are more prevalent in area x and y. Our crime rates are still much better than cities a and b." See how this could solve the problem?
Besides, I think when you make a major move you should find out as much information as possible before jumping in head first. If it's the cheapest apartment in the city, there's a reason for it. You know?
Sorry for getting a little cranky there folks. It's been a little frustrating for me since I'm basically within firing range of one of these locations and I probably overstepped the bounds of common courtesy in response. My apologies.
Moving forward, perhaps we can make a sticky "neighborhood" thread for each of the neighborhoods-near east, monroe, etc, listing the characteristics of the neighborhoods (Atwood-few apartment buildings, many flats, great restaurants, etc) and include the recommended streets to avoid. That might provide a more balanced delivery of information which will satisfy some people, and at least warn newbies to the potential for crime on these specific streets they wouldn't otherwise know about, which is a big concern of mine. Besides, the neighborhood information seems to come up quite frequently in here, so this might save everyone time.
I'll still switch apartments with anyone...seriously.
subclavius has made some points that have held true for cities all over the US--what makes them untrue in Madison? Madison has a very low crime rate compared to other similar-sized cities in the US, and most of this crime is not the result of just happenstance (someone trying to shoot you is far more likely to get you than someone who isn't--the stray bullet is extremely rare unless the area is really being riddled with bullets). This isn't to downplay that crime is bad, but that the probability of actually being involved in these things (unless you're part of the altercation itself) is miniscule to the point of nonexistent.
There's also something far greater at stake here. Larger cities in the past have already gone through this in a way that Madison might not have, but this kind of fear of what are initially low-crime neighborhoods (and they are low crime due to the incredible unlikelihood of it involving you in any way) will spur people to move out and deter law-abiding people from moving in. This sort of all-out disinvestment due to fear is the negative feedback loop that's caused countless neighborhoods throughout American cities to go to seed in a very short time. Crime goes up, property values go down, and the schools turn to crap with each good resident intimidated (at first for little reason, but soon enough big) and then "exiled"--feeding off of the worst of the ever-growing fear.
Why perpetuate a textbook case that is truly avoidable? It's much harder to "gentrify" or revitalize a truly down and out neighborhood than it is to improve a slightly blemished one.
Local news (CBS) just reported that Habitat for Humanity will be tearing down an old 4 plex apt in Meadowood neighborhood and making it an owner occupied townhouse with plans to do 20 more. They are also currently doing this on the north side.
To quote them they said, "If you own your own home, you care about it and your community".
Had to pipe in and confirm my earlier statements about one of the ways Madison tries to make a neighborhood better. What it also accomplishes that they won't directly mention, is that it forces some renters to find another place to live
I know it's a worse off neighborhood and all, but it seems a little mean. "Hey you, your neighbor's a drug dealer. We're destroying your apartment; go find somewhere else to live."
I'm sure it's just me being a naive country girl, but it seems mean.
I know it's a worse off neighborhood and all, but it seems a little mean. "Hey you, your neighbor's a drug dealer. We're destroying your apartment; go find somewhere else to live."
I'm sure it's just me being a naive country girl, but it seems mean.
Which is meaner: taking proactive measures that may inconvenience some who don't have a right to live indefinitely in a building they don't own anyway, or letting a neighborhood go to pot until everyone living there is miserable except those making it miserable for the rest?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
On a side note about Meadowood neighborbood
