Crime in Madison.... (Milwaukee, Fitchburg, Cleveland: middle-class, fit in, section 8)

[ryanj0]

I am new to the City-Data Forums, but am considering moving out of Madison.. The reason for this being, I love the city, I love the vibe, I love the people, but the weather is too much for me to handle and I've lived here several years. That being said, I was browsing the forum here for Madison and I noticed a lot of people talking about shootings and stabbings and such in Madison. I also noticed a lot of people labeling areas as "unsafe" or "dangerous". I just wanted to take the time to correct this and give some outsiders a more realistic perspective.

Madison is VERY low crime for a city of it's size. If you come from a smaller town or city then certain areas may seem bad to you, but in reality there is no "dangerous" area of Madison. Take the whole entire city and judge the murder rates over the last 10 years. Very few have been untargeted, enough to count on one hand. Almost every single murder in Madison (and they are very rare comparatively) is a result of a dispute of some sort between two people. I am not saying it's justified, just saying that there is rarely such a thing as random murders in Madison.

As far as other crime goes, it is also not that bad. Robberies, muggings, violent crime, etc. are very rare in Madison and violent crime is mainly targeted at disputes. Now there has been some concern of rape in the downtown area, I have not heard much about that this year, but as with every area with a lot of college girls, this was a real concern. I think the school did a good job of informing on rape prevention.

My bottom line is this. You are not going to get murdered in Madison you don't really have to fear for your safety in any area that goes for Allied Drive, Badger Road, and anywhere else. As long as you go about your own business, you will never have to worry anywhere.

[Nique]

Agreed, I'd say Madison is incredibly safe. There are few places I'd be scared to go at night. Any city is going to have a few problems, but I have never felt endangered in Madison in the least.

[Megan1967]

I think Madison is a wonderful place and very safe overall. However, I question whether someone who describes Allied Drive as safe has ever actually spent time in that area.

I have, and I can tell you that it is not safe. I realize safe is relative, but there are too many factors at work in that area to ever describe it as safe.

There are shootings there and, targeted or not, a stray bullet kills just as effectively as one aimed directly at you.

Drugs are rampant. The summer I worked over there there were always *many* adults and older children who were clearly high hanging around. Where there is high drug use, there is danger. People on drugs are totally unpredictable.

[ryanj0]

Originally Posted by Megan1967

I think Madison is a wonderful place and very safe overall. However, I question whether someone who describes Allied Drive as safe has ever actually spent time in that area.

I have, and I can tell you that it is not safe. I realize safe is relative, but there are too many factors at work in that area to ever describe it as safe.

There are shootings there and, targeted or not, a stray bullet kills just as effectively as one aimed directly at you.

Drugs are rampant. The summer I worked over there there were always *many* adults and older children who were clearly high hanging around. Where there is high drug use, there is danger. People on drugs are totally unpredictable.

Perhaps, but you have to realize I lived in Detroit at one time. I have spent significant time on Allied (me being caucasian as well) and can tell you I find it safe. For Madison, it is not safe, but it doesn't hold a candle to unsafe areas in most cities even of Madison's size. I also think the Boys and Girls Club has helped Allied out quite a bit. When you say there are shootings there, sure, but they happen how often?? Maybe 0-6 times a year, almost all not killing anyone. And stray bullets are just as dangerous, true, but over the last 10 years how many times has a stray bullet in any area hit anyone in Madison. Maybe a couple.

That is my point. Areas like Allied and Badger Road are going to seem bad to people who have lived in Madison or the country all the time, but those areas don't even know what real crime is.

[gold*dust1]

Allied Drive, Badger Rd. and other pockets of the city are not desirable neighborhoods. That is usually the context in which advice is given here regarding them. They might not be dangerous compared to Detroit, but they are the most dangerous and unpleasant in Madison. Crime can happen anywhere. People end up in those neighborhoods because they have the cheapest rents, section 8 etc.

If a poster asks about signing a lease sight unseen for an apt. on Badger Rd. my advice would be don't. If you talk to a home owner in Meadowood who sees their home values plummeting and have had several shootings resulting in death, while watching their once quiet well manicured neighborhood go downhill, with unruly kids hanging out all hours of the night, they might say it is not only becoming dangerous but also unpleasant which makes it undesirable!

[ryanj0]

Originally Posted by gold*dust1

Allied Drive, Badger Rd. and other pockets of the city are not desirable neighborhoods. That is usually the context in which advice is given here regarding them. They might not be dangerous compared to Detroit, but they are the most dangerous and unpleasant in Madison. Crime can happen anywhere. People end up in those neighborhoods because they have the cheapest rents, section 8 etc.

If a poster asks about signing a lease sight unseen for an apt. on Badger Rd. my advice would be don't. If you talk to a home owner in Meadowood who sees their home values plummeting and have had several shootings resulting in death, while watching their once quiet well manicured neighborhood go downhill, with unruly kids hanging out all hours of the night, they might say it is not only becoming dangerous but also unpleasant which makes it undesirable!

Alright, undesirable, I will give you that. Dangerous for Madison, I will give you that. But dangerous in general, not so much. That is all I am saying, I was just pointing out that reading some posts it makes it seem like shootings happen weekly or daily. In the whole city of Madison, with the exception of certain waves of crime (which I will give you do seem to rotate around, one year the wave may be in the Allied Drive area, one year it may be badger road, another a little further down park st, another Hammersly area, another McKenna, another in Fitchburg/Fish Hatch), I will give you that these waves that usually last a month or two at most, but with the exception of these waves it is uncommon to even have a shooting once every month in the whole city.

I would agree these areas are not desirable, but the context in which people place them on these boards makes it sound worse than it is that's all I'm saying. Let's not use Detroit as an example to compare it to, Detroit is much bigger. Let's say Gary, IN. Half the size of Madison, and there you do have areas where there is real crime on a consistent basis. Madison doesn't have that. And when it does, for at most a month or two, it is handled very quickly. That's all I'm saying. Things should be put in context, desirable no, but also a no for any street or block in Madison is having to fear for your life. Now, if you live the dangerous lifestyle, then you may fit in the area of targeted crime then maybe, but if you don't then nowhere in Madison do you need to fear for your life. I stand by that.

[Drover]

It's true enough that crime may be low in Madison, and I think even people who talk about crime and "bad parts of town" will acknowledge that. The concern is whether or not it will stay that way. There is clearly a growing perception that serious crime is on the rise and Madison is starting to see issues with gangs while the idea of gangs in Madison was almost laughable 10 years ago.

[subclavius]

I really don't care what size a city is, I just don't want to be living next to or in a dangerous or undesirable area.

It's fairly easy to avoid moving into these areas in a big city because they will have a well-known reputation. The problem with Madison is that several of these bad areas are new, and more or less sprung up after the city cracked down on Allied and Sommerset. It would be easy for a young family to rent or buy a place thinking they got a good deal only to find out there is drug/gang activity next door. That's what happened to me, albeit as a bachelor. If I was a father and this happened, I would be pretty darn upset about it.

I've lived in a couple of the perennial top 10 of the FBI's most dangerous cities, and I live right down the street from the Hammersley/Loreen mess now. There is no such thing as "context" when it comes to crime. When some idiot runs down the street in broad daylight shooting ten rounds at a passing car for no good reason, and on a beautiful Sunday afternoon when you would normally be outside, the honest and decent people living in the area are not going to feel safe, no matter what the rest of the city is like, or how little crime it has relative to other cities of any size.

The rest of Madison could have zero crime for the year. Zero. Nada. None. But the good people still living in the high crime area will not feel safe. And take a good look at any of the areas where the latest shootings have been and you'll see regular neighborly people, many of whom lived in these areas for decades before the thugs came in and started shooting up the place. These kindly neighbors didn't live the "dangerous lifestyle", it came to them. They can't avoid it. They have to do things like mow the lawn, go to work, etc, activities where they're now running the risk of catching a stray bullet.

Anybody who says crime isn't an issue doesn't live in or directly next to one of these areas, and I would be more than happy to trade apartments with someone says so and is willing to back it up. Want to say the rest of Madison is more or less OK, fine, but don't start rationalizing that it's no big deal and that there's no reason for innocent people not to feel safe. Fine where you live, but that poop won't fly here....just stray bullets.

I have noticed a HUGE increase in unmarked police car traffic going up and down Hammersley starting last week. Seems like a big waste of money, since everyone here feels so safe and all......

[Allan Trafton]

Originally Posted by subclavius

I really don't care what size a city is, I just don't want to be living next to or in a dangerous or undesirable area.

It's fairly easy to avoid moving into these areas in a big city because they will have a well-known reputation. The problem with Madison is that several of these bad areas are new, and more or less sprung up after the city cracked down on Allied and Sommerset. It would be easy for a young family to rent or buy a place thinking they got a good deal only to find out there is drug/gang activity next door. That's what happened to me, albeit as a bachelor. If I was a father and this happened, I would be pretty darn upset about it.

I've lived in a couple of the perennial top 10 of the FBI's most dangerous cities, and I live right down the street from the Hammersley/Loreen mess now. There is no such thing as "context" when it comes to crime. When some idiot runs down the street in broad daylight shooting ten rounds at a passing car for no good reason, and on a beautiful Sunday afternoon when you would normally be outside, the honest and decent people living in the area are not going to feel safe, no matter what the rest of the city is like, or how little crime it has relative to other cities of any size.

The rest of Madison could have zero crime for the year. Zero. Nada. None. But the good people still living in the high crime area will not feel safe. And take a good look at any of the areas where the latest shootings have been and you'll see regular neighborly people, many of whom lived in these areas for decades before the thugs came in and started shooting up the place. These kindly neighbors didn't live the "dangerous lifestyle", it came to them. They can't avoid it. They have to do things like mow the lawn, go to work, etc, activities where they're now running the risk of catching a stray bullet.

Anybody who says crime isn't an issue doesn't live in or directly next to one of these areas, and I would be more than happy to trade apartments with someone says so and is willing to back it up. Want to say the rest of Madison is more or less OK, fine, but don't start rationalizing that it's no big deal and that there's no reason for innocent people not to feel safe. Fine where you live, but that poop won't fly here....just stray bullets.

I have noticed a HUGE increase in unmarked police car traffic going up and down Hammersley starting last week. Seems like a big waste of money, since everyone here feels so safe and all......

Excellent post. I couldn't have put it better myself. Crime is crime. I don't
understand this mindset "I'm from Detroit or Cleveland or wherever therefore crime isn't that big of a deal for me." If someone sticks a gun in my face I'll just as scared no matter where I'm from. I feel sorry for Madison, they don't even realize what there facing. The bad elements from Milwaukee, Chicago, Rockford, Twin Cities etc..are beginning to arrive and they are in denial. It's going to get worse and the neighborhoods are going to continue to go downhill. It will only be a few years until middle class flight from the schools begins. Madison is blinded by their political correctness and will not address this problem in a realistic way. If anything it will make the problems worse.

[Drover]

Looks like middle-class flight from East High has already begun.