Why do Neighborhood Groups Yield so much Power? (Madison, Middleton: real estate, condo)

[Chelito23]

It seems like the almighty neighborhood groups in Madison run the show, they can make or break any project. I have never seen such an ordinate amout of power given to these groups anywhere. Who gave them all this power? How did it happen?

I think some power is a good thing, but the NIMBYism is so outrageous in Madison that they prevent logical growth many times and we end up losing as a community.

What are your thoughts about them?

[Lookout Kid]

Well, for years they called Madison "The City That Can't Put Two Bricks Together". The idiotic controversey over the Monona Terrace Convention Center was truly amazing. As an architect it makes me think twice about living there again.

[Chelito23]

I am just thinking about this new Edgewater Hotel Project. I mean, Madison has basically no area people can go to enjoy waterfront dining, clubs, bars, etc. It is all private homes and of course there are parks, but now that a project comes up that would be open to the public, like the Memorial Union, and people are up in arms. They talk about a new "tower" and its supposed to be something like 10 stories tall. And its a "tower"???

I mean, this is downtown, if you can't have a 10 story building there, then where?

A lot of people don't realize that progress means change, things just don't stagnate. No one wants any sort of real density or change, they want things to stay how they are and just become yuppified and upscale.

Everything is analyized to death and business does just give up and locate outside the city...think Greenway Park in Middleton. It is insane.

Personally I think the city had good intentions at a time to give people power, but the neighborhood groups yield to much control and can make or break anything pretty much. A lot of the controversy is so silly too, plans are usually very high quality, but people put all these sill demands and restrictions.

Remember the Midvale Project? Something like 5 stories was too "dense" but it was supposed to be an infill project. For years people around that development had a view of loading docks from an aging strip mall, and that was fine, but a 5 story condo and with stree level stores and landscaping was too dense again. It seems so insane.

[RemiJP]

I think my neighborhood association does a great job with a newsletter, spreading the word about upcoming meetings and issues, and from what I can tell, anyone can join a committee.

[Milwaukee Ronnie]

Madison is basically run like a co-op. Everyone has an equal voice and every single thing, no matter how minor, is debated and voted on to death. Meetings go on until two o' clock in the morning while people pontificate and perfect their ideologies without offering real pragmatic solutions to pressing concerns. Nothing is resolved but people feel good about themselves for "sticking it to the man" and keepin' it real. And the people in charge, those people who in other towns make things happen by being willing to tick some folks off, they let the pontificators run the show, because, after all, "everyone has a say."

The people who run Madison are mostly former (or current) radicals and activists. That is, they're people who spent a lifetime in a black and white world, railing against the Forces of Evil (that is, capitalists) in favor of Good (the "People," the Environment, etc). The mayor of Madison spent his career as an environmental activist. He's used to advocating for one point of view and trying to affect policy from outside the system. Nothing in his background is conducive to being an executive: weighing different points of view, and being willing to make tough decisions where there is no clear Good or Bad solution.

I'm not poo-pooing activists, our society needs people to rattle the cages of those in power. But throwing stones from outside the process and actually trying to get things done inside the process are two totally different things.

So basically you have a bunch of activists running the local govenment, many of whom are opposed ideologically to real estate development as a money-making enterprise. Throw in people's fear of change (this is not just a Madison thing), and the result is inertia.

Plus, let's not forget that Madison is not a big city. The margin on projects like the Edgewater in such a small market is paper thin. Developers are much more likely to walk away than they would in bigger markets where there is a greater liklihood of success.

[Drover]

Yield? Are you sure you don't mean wield? Because they mean practically the opposite. I was pretty confused reading your posts the first couple of times.

Anyway, I love the cognitive dissonance that comes from the reflexive impulse to oppose/protest about EVERYTHING. To wit:

1) "Oh no! they're developing subdivisions in cornfields! SPRAWL IS BAD!!"

2) "Oh no! They want to build a 5-story development! DENSITY IS BAD!!"

I guess that's what happens when protesting is the end itself rather than the means to an end.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Drover

Yield? Are you sure you don't mean wield? Because they mean practically the opposite. I was pretty confused reading your posts the first couple of times.

Somehow I read it multiple without even noticing. Very funny. It completely transforms the meaning of the sentence.

[Chelito23]

I guess it's too late for me to go back and edit the title'??

[gold*dust1]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

I guess it's too late for me to go back and edit the title'??

Ha, I'm from Madison and I'm going to be friendly now >>>
Don't worry about it >> we get ya! It is possible to change a title though, just so you know. You would have to dm a mod and if they thought it was worth doing I guess.

[Huckleberry3911948]

my friends dont like them, but that is because they my friends are pigs and dont take care of the property.