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I agree with the WIS thing. I hardly think they are doing themselves any favors. The finacial ruin thius country is flirting with is serious and they are cutting their nose to spite their face..
But I also think I understand where roadrat is coming from. While teachers and politicians in general hit the headlines with their payscales and pensions.. the entry level blue color workers of goverment get grouped into the mix..
One of my tenants in his late 50's has been working as a janitor in lewiston for the past 5 years doesnt have a hs deploma.. He cant get his GED though he tried like hell. And though he gets 40 hrs a week the city has saw fit to only pay him as a part time employee and not give him any benifits.. His pay is disgusting. He is an asset to tax payers.. a hard worker and a honest man.. Personally he deserves better treatment! and if this country collapses I wont be holding him accountable.
I have worked in government and I am still connected to it as my wife works for a municpality. To protect her I dont want to get into details (small world ) but basically government is TOP heavy.. Like the congress men and women who can only vote themselves pay raises municiple gov is no different.
The diff in pay between management and staff is staggering.. My wifes boss makes literally 3 times my wifes pay and they do half the work.. while my wife's union (I use that term loosly) struggels to negotiate a 1% raises (she hasnt had one in two years and thats fine.. we both understand the problems we are facing) management routinley give themselves 5%.. there is also way too many supervisors..
I know as a tax payer we are sick of hearing it and just want the problem fixed.. But I see Roadrats points.. and my wife and I are no big time Union fans.. in particluar MSEAU has got to go!
Last edited by flycessna; 02-19-2011 at 08:45 PM..
Don't forget that for many in the dreaded private sector, they are not earning hours toward vacation time and many are working some of those Fed holidays. It is not far fectched to say that a similar health care pakage would cost ten times what the public employee is paying out per month. So the entire compensation package works out to upwards of 50k annually. The taxpayers subsidize this. So the overall entry level position with the DOT, for instance, is worth far more than the face value of the hourly wage.
The small business owner who makes anything is required to pay the full self employment nut. If you have employees, you have additional overhead of workmen's comp, which the employer can not obtain for his or her self, except through private insurance. Beefing up a policy with dental and eyecare like that is an absolute steal!
This thread is obviously coming from the Wisconsin thing. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes $89,000 a year for 9 months of work. That's REALLY GOOD MONEY from a Maine point of view. Asking them to contribute 12 % to their own retiremant and health benefits is not asking too much if it means the state can balance the budget. The Governor of Wisconsin is NOT firing them, he is not laying them off, he is asking them to contribute HALF of what a worker in the private sector has to pay for their benefits.
Maine isn't coming after anyone...yet. They want people to be reasonable.
In the case of the Wisconsin teachers, when everyone is hurting and balancing the budget is hard, people should expect a few concessions from public workers instead of them telling us (WE WHO PAY YOU BY THE WAY) we are robbing them or we are being unreasonable...
If the people who are paying for the salaries of public workers are hurting and paying more is not feasable why in the world would you ask for more?? When they taxpayers DO finally revolt because they are TAXED out, how in the world can you hold that against them??? There should be NO public unions at all. Collective bargainig against TAX PAYERS is wrong an MANY levels. The people of the town should vote on what to pay the public workers. If that pay is not good enough then feel free to go find employment elsewhere!!
Public workers should never be paid any more than a private worker doing the same job. Public workers should pay into their own retirement accounts and heath care accounts just like the rest of the working public has to.
I'm not sayin the OP is doing anything wrong. He's not breaking the bank and I feel we get a good amount of service for the compensation he receives.
There are others in Maine who receive far more and should not. Their day is coming soon . Watch Wisconsin, Ohio, Tennessee and other states. Public service will have to be slashed and what remains will have to live with less. Don't forget in this market there are 12 people willing to do your public sector job for 1/2 the pay......they are hungry.
You also say that the "gov. of wis. is asking the teachers to pay HALF of what the private sector pays" were is the proof of this? and what part of the private sector? all of it? some of it? How much does the private sector pay for there benefits? I pay more now for my benefits than I did at my old job in the private sector, I used to pay $90.00 a month for my son and I for health ins. now I pay over $200.00!
This is another good one, Public workers should pay into their own retirement accounts and heath care accounts just like the rest of the working public has to. Your insinuating that public employees don't pay for there benefits, If you read my OP you'll see that we do, at about the same level as the private sector.
You see you goto do a little digging to find the truth, Here's an example:
If I were on a radio show and shouted that I pay over twice as much for health ins. now than I did in the private sector! some people would agree with me and want the Gov. to make things fair, right.
Now I'm not lying about how much I paid for insurance but I'm not telling you the whole story either you see my old Ins. was a health fund paired with a HSA.
I HIGHLY doubt that the average teacher in WI makes that much, Mainah. Where did you get that statistic? My father taught in Raymond for many, many years, has a Master's degree and he capped out at about $42,000.
Don't forget that for many in the dreaded private sector, they are not earning hours toward vacation time and many are working some of those Fed holidays. It is not far fectched to say that a similar health care pakage would cost ten times what the public employee is paying out per month. So the entire compensation package works out to upwards of 50k annually. The taxpayers subsidize this. So the overall entry level position with the DOT, for instance, is worth far more than the face value of the hourly wage.
The small business owner who makes anything is required to pay the full self employment nut. If you have employees, you have additional overhead of workmen's comp, which the employer can not obtain for his or her self, except through private insurance. Beefing up a policy with dental and eyecare like that is an absolute steal!
Things must have changed alot in the last 5 months since I took this job because with the exception of my 1st job (paper route) every full time job I have had offered vacation time, yea none of them let you earn it on a monthly basis but it was basically the same. How many is many can you name many companies that have done away with vacation time?
yes state employees do get the fed holidays off, but so do many others in the private sector for example the entire financial sector of the country, Banks, Credit Unions, Wall St, etc.
As for the Health care package being worth 50K, I would really love to see some proof of this. If your just going to make up numbers off the top of your head than why not go big and say 100K or 200k. I mean really there is no basis in reallity for anything you have just written.
P.S. You forgot to mention that every State employee is given a Cadillac Escalade and a free gas for life card on the tax payers dime.
Back to teacher's salaries -- it took all of about 20 seconds to research to find out that the average WI salary for teachers is around $46-48K depending on which website I looked at.
Anyone who thinks teachers are overpaid has no clue what it's like to teach. You could not pay me enough to do that vital job.
Back to teacher's salaries -- it took all of about 20 seconds to research to find out that the average WI salary for teachers is around $46-48K depending on which website I looked at.
Anyone who thinks teachers are overpaid has no clue what it's like to teach. You could not pay me enough to do that vital job.
I'd have a tough time with the disrespect,
but Id always thought id like to be a teacher- Id be less of a study and memorize and more application to what the concepts are-interaction with the students
I would LOVE to have summers off -speaking of that when you do hear a teachers salary, from the eight months actually worked, it's decent pay
teachers have summers off, all the vacations, and holidays.
im not bashing teachers-Id like to see the pay for superintendents, (and offices) go towards teachers-with school boards and pricipals, why do we need superintendents?
I forgot to add that in North Carolina, it is illegal for state employees to unionize. I do believe this is the only state in the union this holds true. The govenor put forth her proposed budget this year, looks like 8,000 state jobs are on the chopping block. I am not a union man, couldn't have been in one anyway as I was senior management however,State employees are always called upon to balance the budget when the lawmakers are unable too. There is so much waste in other areas that should be addressed before someone's career is ended. It is not the employee's fault the state hired them. Many are veterans, have to be law abiding model citizens, with their financial house in order, in other words, the cream of the crop. I'm glad I left when I did. Next thing they will do is try and mess with the retirees.
I'd have a tough time with the disrespect,
but Id always thought id like to be a teacher- Id be less of a study and memorize and more application to what the concepts are-interaction with the students
I would LOVE to have summers off -speaking of that when you do hear a teachers salary, from the eight months actually worked, it's decent pay
teachers have summers off, all the vacations, and holidays.
im not bashing teachers-Id like to see the pay for superintendents, (and offices) go towards teachers-with school boards and pricipals, why do we need superintendents?
I understand what you're getting at, but a lot of what many teachers do on their 'off' time is really misunderstood IMO.
I spent many recreation program ball games sitting next to a 6th grade teacher in our school who was grading a stack of papers while cheering her son on. This happened on a regular basis, and she wasn't the only one.
I live not far from the school, so I know many of the teachers' vehicles. A lot of them are there during off hours including weekends.
Last summer they spent most of the vacation meeting to align their curriculum with state and federal requirements. It's only going to get worse when the federal government starts mandating bogus 'standards' right along with the ridiculous ones (which cost a whole lot of money in licensing fees, teacher training, and materials) that the state already does. These mandates are funded by the towns because they're certainly not funded by the state. The state just demands them.
So, I guess I'd say that if you factor in the time they need to spend on figuring out how to jump through hoops, I'd say it works out pretty evenly in the end IMO. Once test scores are tied to salaries, you can bet it's going to get much worse. Not only will we lose competent teachers, they'll be forced to cram little more than the questions that NECAP has determined are the ones which our kids must know (like for example, the relative probability that their class will have a picnic on Thursday). Meanwhile, those of us who learned clear spelling rules will have to endure chronic spelling mistakes (consistent ones, not a general goof up that we ALL do once and a while) because spellcheck didn't flag them for the writer of what we're reading. Yes, IMHO, it has gotten this stupid.
I don't know anyone in the private sector who doesn't have most holidays off - except maybe retail and restaurants. Most everyone pays some portion of their healthcare costs now. The old model of go to work and retire from the same job with decent pay and benefits is solidly gone.
My grandfather raised 10 children entirely without public assistance and without my grandmother earning a paycheck (during the height of the depression no less). He graduated from 8th grade and retired as a foreman.
His granddaughters and grandsons will be lucky to keep one job for 5 years much less a lifetime.
One of the reasons state jobs are still much sought-after is that they have any benefits at all. Long gone is the day you could pay your doctor bill with cash and be done with it.
I agree that school administration is top heavy 'tho for sure. That said, they do need to have at least one person assigned the task of miring through the ever-changing bs that is legislation.
Last edited by cebdark; 02-20-2011 at 10:35 AM..
Reason: half asleep/added
The $80k figure for teachers represents their pay AND benefits package. Teaching is the best part time job in America, right now.
The $50k plus for the MDOT employees represents the pay and benefits package. You have to figure in beenies as part of the deal.
Most business in Maine is small business. Not all can afford to offer a gold plated health care plan and generouse vacation and holiday time to their employees.
The public sector is sucking the life out of the taxpayers. Collective bargaining in the State public sector should be run like the Federal system. Get rid of it entirely! Let the legislature set the compensation, like Congress does in the Federal sector. Public unions need to be outlawed once again. The striking teachers in WI need to be fired. When the school districts start cracking down in Maine, they should fire all the incompetents instead of letting the ones with the least time in, go first. Tenure is a joke!
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) but basically government is TOP heavy.. Like the congress men and women who can only vote themselves pay raises municiple gov is no different. 
