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Old 06-21-2011, 04:35 PM
 
7 posts, read 7,158 times
Reputation: 27

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OMG, if that legislation passed in Louisiana there would be too many of us on the news! LOL

(formerly ILUVMAIE)
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,788 posts, read 15,546,159 times
Reputation: 24323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Speaking as a whining person, now my disgruntled post office employee, can go postal and go right out to his car get his gun and go back in, and he doesn't even need a carry permit to do it.

I think the use of bigot is the wrong word here: it implies someone who obstinately won't change his or her views or or who is partial to their own views and even more so is intolerant of others who differ. This could equally apply to the gun lobby. I'm not sure that carrying a gun could be in the category of basic HUMAN rights, though under the constitution of the USA, it appears to be a basic LEGAL RIGHT.

Lest you believe that I am a whining non gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit in PA. I would prefer that everyone carrying their gun in their car have a concealed carry permit, since its most likely concealed in the car.
I stopped reading as soon as I read your first sentence to say something so I don't know if I'm repeating...

That postal employee was gonna pack with or without a permit, with or without permission to bring his/her gun to work. The laws keeping legal gun owners from doing things do NOT stop criminals from doing what they are going to do.

If that postal worker is going to shoot up everyone at work, they are going to do it no matter what the law happens to be because CLEARLY they are not in to following the law.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,922 posts, read 3,675,317 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorMama View Post

That postal employee was gonna pack with or without a permit, with or without permission to bring his/her gun to work. The laws keeping legal gun owners from doing things do NOT stop criminals from doing what they are going to do.
You state that as if its a FACT. It is not a fact; you do not know that. I have lots of friends who are postal workers, and none of them carry guns. And besides, the going postal dude, or anyone who "goes postal", isn't a criminal UNTIL THEY GO POSTAL. So when he had the gun in his car he was just a legal abiding citizen. If he had a concealed carry permit, then he would probalby be thinking about the use of the gun in his car. But who knows, I don't.

I think that in these issues we have to be careful not to confuse our opinions, no matter how strongly held, with actual facts about situations.

I almost got into it with a good friend at lunch today over the idea that humans are responsible for the current climate change. She is apparently unaware that climate is constantly changing, that species of plants and animals are constantly over the ages dying out, etc. She says they are dying out faster now than any other time, which is her opinion, but since we only have record of the deaths since about the 1950's, IT IS MY OPINION, that her point of view is ridiculous, and her belief in human caused global warming is based on her belief in climate models that have already been multiply discredited.

Neither she nor I will win this argument, but over the next 20 years, one of us will be proved right, and then we can tout it to each other in our 80's if we are still alive.

I try to remember that neither of us has FACTS, only opinions.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:24 PM
 
4,244 posts, read 4,462,176 times
Reputation: 9330
My head is starting to spin.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,275,819 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Speaking as a whining person, now my disgruntled post office employee, can go postal and go right out to his car get his gun and go back in, and he doesn't even need a carry permit to do it.

I think the use of bigot is the wrong word here: it implies someone who obstinately won't change his or her views or or who is partial to their own views and even more so is intolerant of others who differ. This could equally apply to the gun lobby. I'm not sure that carrying a gun could be in the category of basic HUMAN rights, though under the constitution of the USA, it appears to be a basic LEGAL RIGHT.

Lest you believe that I am a whining non gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit in PA. I would prefer that everyone carrying their gun in their car have a concealed carry permit, since its most likely concealed in the car.
Your disgruntled postal worker is disgruntled. I doubt that a piece of paper stating he can carry a weapon is going to change his disgruntled mind. In fact, more than likely your disgruntled postal worker is probably disgruntled because he's good and fed up with people who try and tell him he's guilty until proven innocent.

I suppose you're correct about it not being a human right, although I must say, it is inherent in human nature to defend ones self and property. Following that logic, do I then need a Concealed Baseball Bat Permit to carry one for protection in the back seat of my car?

Concealed weapon permits, although nice to have I suppose, are just about worth as much as a Protection From Abuse Order is IMHO i.e. perfectly useless.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,788 posts, read 15,546,159 times
Reputation: 24323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
You state that as if its a FACT. It is not a fact; you do not know that. I have lots of friends who are postal workers, and none of them carry guns. And besides, the going postal dude, or anyone who "goes postal", isn't a criminal UNTIL THEY GO POSTAL. So when he had the gun in his car he was just a legal abiding citizen. If he had a concealed carry permit, then he would probalby be thinking about the use of the gun in his car. But who knows, I don't.

I think that in these issues we have to be careful not to confuse our opinions, no matter how strongly held, with actual facts about situations.

I almost got into it with a good friend at lunch today over the idea that humans are responsible for the current climate change. She is apparently unaware that climate is constantly changing, that species of plants and animals are constantly over the ages dying out, etc. She says they are dying out faster now than any other time, which is her opinion, but since we only have record of the deaths since about the 1950's, IT IS MY OPINION, that her point of view is ridiculous, and her belief in human caused global warming is based on her belief in climate models that have already been multiply discredited.

Neither she nor I will win this argument, but over the next 20 years, one of us will be proved right, and then we can tout it to each other in our 80's if we are still alive.

I try to remember that neither of us has FACTS, only opinions.
Well, I'm not going to argue with you but I think I can state that it IS a fact that criminals do not care about the laws. Hence the name, "criminal" and "law breakers" and why they end up in prison.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,922 posts, read 3,675,317 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post

Following that logic, do I then need a Concealed Baseball Bat Permit to carry one for protection in the back seat of my car?

Concealed weapon permits, although nice to have I suppose, are just about worth as much as a Protection From Abuse Order is IMHO i.e. perfectly useless.
If you carry a concealed baseball bat you are limited to doing damage to anyone within the distance that you can swing the bat, or that they can run away or that you can run after them. If you hit them they can withdraw before you can swing it again. With hand gun, they have to get pretty far away, you don't have to chase them, and you can hit them with it(so to speak) 3 times a second until you run out of "hits". The anology is terribly innacurate.

Concealed carry permits are very helpful if you get stopped by a cop and you are carrying a gun concealed. Also, IN PA, if you are on your way to a target shoot or your cabin and you get stopped, you won't need to have your rounds in a separate locked case from your locked gun and on the other side of the car. And should you decide that YOU need defending, and should actually use the weapon to defend yourself, drawing it from inside your coat, you better wish you had a concealed carry permit.

You've changed the discussion with anologies that don't match. But that doesn't make any difference. Those who want some moderation in the carrying of guns everywhere are called "whining bigots" by the gun lobbyists, who are so entrenched in their viewpoint that people who disagree with them are immediately treated to insulting comments. What is so humorous is that the word bigot actually means someone who is so entrenched in their own viewpoint that they can't discuss the point rationally without immediately resorting to calling their opponent in the discussion by insulting names.

Just to be real here, I was not saying that YOU(reloop) were unable to discuss the subject rationally with someone(me for example) who actually owns projectile devices of various kinds both pressure actuated and gunpowder activated and who has a concealed carry permit. My comment was directed to other members of our respective groups who when an impasse is reached cannot let it go, and must resort to immediate insulting words. Oddly, its these kinds of insulting words given in bars all over the country that lead directly to the dangerous, inappropriate, and often deadly use of such projectile weapons.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:22 PM
 
1,061 posts, read 1,699,982 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
People who go postal don't care whether they can legally have a gun.
That's right.

There's already a law against hunting humans, but that doesn't stop people from going postal.

So why should a law against having a gun stop people from going postal?
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 7,017,004 times
Reputation: 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Considering that Colt's model used powder, balls and percussion caps, and considering the time entailed in loading such a combination initially, I would prefer that Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson be labeled as the real inventors who made them EQUAL. S&W were the first to market a revolver with cartridges.
************************************************** *******
Samuel Colt's Cap & Ball revolvers took a little bit of planning but when needed they did the job. ONE shot is usually enough to end the discussion and those early revolvers usually held six. The modern cartridges are nice, especially in wet conditions. Keep your powder dry meant something back in the day. I guess if you couldn't hit a bull in the ass from two feet you might need seventeen rounds to hit the target. Military use is totally different than self defense.
GL2
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:14 PM
 
8,760 posts, read 16,142,138 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
If you carry a concealed baseball bat you are limited to doing damage to anyone within the distance that you can swing the bat, or that they can run away or that you can run after them. If you hit them they can withdraw before you can swing it again. With hand gun, they have to get pretty far away, you don't have to chase them, and you can hit them with it(so to speak) 3 times a second until you run out of "hits". The anology is terribly innacurate.

Concealed carry permits are very helpful if you get stopped by a cop and you are carrying a gun concealed. Also, IN PA, if you are on your way to a target shoot or your cabin and you get stopped, you won't need to have your rounds in a separate locked case from your locked gun and on the other side of the car. And should you decide that YOU need defending, and should actually use the weapon to defend yourself, drawing it from inside your coat, you better wish you had a concealed carry permit.

You've changed the discussion with anologies that don't match. But that doesn't make any difference. Those who want some moderation in the carrying of guns everywhere are called "whining bigots" by the gun lobbyists, who are so entrenched in their viewpoint that people who disagree with them are immediately treated to insulting comments. What is so humorous is that the word bigot actually means someone who is so entrenched in their own viewpoint that they can't discuss the point rationally without immediately resorting to calling their opponent in the discussion by insulting names.

Just to be real here, I was not saying that YOU(reloop) were unable to discuss the subject rationally with someone(me for example) who actually owns projectile devices of various kinds both pressure actuated and gunpowder activated and who has a concealed carry permit. My comment was directed to other members of our respective groups who when an impasse is reached cannot let it go, and must resort to immediate insulting words. Oddly, its these kinds of insulting words given in bars all over the country that lead directly to the dangerous, inappropriate, and often deadly use of such projectile weapons.
It isn't worth the suspension.
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