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Old 06-27-2011, 04:47 PM
 
Location: MINNEAPOLIS, MN
43 posts, read 103,680 times
Reputation: 51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangorme View Post
Gay marriage is not a "personal freedom," it is a legal contract. Right now in Maine, only a man and a woman can enter into that legal contract. Nothing stops gay people from having a relationship (that's a personal freedom btw), but they can't marry. Just like I can't practice law or operate on people or drive when I'm 12 or.... Since the only way gay marriage has ever been legalized in the U.S. is through government or judicial fiat, I don't expect it anytime soon and politicians that support it do so at their political peril.
There are logical reasons of safety that prevent a 12 year old from driving or you from operating on people. I'm not saying it's illegal for gays to not be able to marry, just as segregation was not illegal for most of our history. There is no logical reason a man and a man cannot enter into a legal contract that is marriage. Any reason defies logic and is discriminatory. Most are based upon an individual's morals which we all come to through different paths. So why should one person's morals prevent another from living their life the way they see fit, so long as it does not negatively affect the wellbeing of a society?

 
Old 06-27-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Caribou, Me.
4,943 posts, read 3,540,394 times
Reputation: 3470
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenjudkins View Post
There are logical reasons of safety that prevent a 12 year old from driving or you from operating on people. I'm not saying it's illegal for gays to not be able to marry, just as segregation was not illegal for most of our history. There is no logical reason a man and a man cannot enter into a legal contract that is marriage. Any reason defies logic and is discriminatory. Most are based upon an individual's morals which we all come to through different paths. So why should one person's morals prevent another from living their life the way they see fit, so long as it does not negatively affect the wellbeing of a society?
There may not be "logic" (is there any logic to ALLOWING gay marriage, then??). But there is the massive trend of ten thousand years of women and men marrying. And there is spirituality. Among other things.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:01 PM
 
1,403 posts, read 3,055,616 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888 View Post
There may not be "logic" (is there any logic to ALLOWING gay marriage, then??). But there is the massive trend of ten thousand years of women and men marrying. And there is spirituality. Among other things.
For tens of thousands of years, there have been groups of people enslaving another groups of people....should be let this also go on, just because people have been doing it for a long time??
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Florida (SW)
38,448 posts, read 18,210,836 times
Reputation: 46324
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888 View Post
There may not be "logic" (is there any logic to ALLOWING gay marriage, then??). But there is the massive trend of ten thousand years of women and men marrying. And there is spirituality. Among other things.
The 10 thousand year trend and spirituality mainly treated women like property, defended rape within marriage, denied married women property rights or full citizenship, condoned child marriages and polygomy are not what I am talking about.....fortunately we are evolving.....and the good of two willing partners standing before their community and expressing their love and commitment to love and honor and support one another....is worthwhile....and the state should sanction that equally for all its citizens.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: MINNEAPOLIS, MN
43 posts, read 103,680 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888 View Post
There may not be "logic" (is there any logic to ALLOWING gay marriage, then??). But there is the massive trend of ten thousand years of women and men marrying. And there is spirituality. Among other things.
There is a logic in letting people live the way they choose as long as no one is negatively affected.

But yes, as the previous poster said.. there have been many, many social discriminations that have been broken over the past couple hundred years. Just because we've done a lot doesn't mean we're done.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
1,472 posts, read 2,614,713 times
Reputation: 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by elston View Post
The only requirement for a man and woman to marry in the state of Maine
You missed this part.

Marriage being between a man and a woman is, and always has been, almost universal within all cultures all over the world. Sometimes a man can marry women or men can marry a women, but same sex marriage (other for current pc reasons), is virtually unheard of. I can remember an anthropology class where there was a tribe somewhere that allowed a woman to marry a woman. I've never heard of any tribe allowing the marriage of men. You can point out all the trivial exceptions you want, they are still trivial exceptions.

The constitution does not guarantee gays same sex marriage. Only judicial activism has allowed that subversion of the the constitution.

You really have to research the PURPOSE of marriage. It isn't to obtain government benefits or some other status. It isn't a political statement, it's a got a purpose.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
1,472 posts, read 2,614,713 times
Reputation: 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenjudkins View Post
There is a logic in letting people live the way they choose as long as no one is negatively affected.
The defining of marriage as it is, is not discrimination. Marriage has a purpose. It isn't discrimination because I can't drive at 14. Drivers licenses have a purpose. The degradation of marriage to what is is now has cost our society dearly. Look at the cost of illegitimacy in this society. The destruction of marriage, making it a meaningful legal institution would be devastating.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Maine
7,728 posts, read 10,823,206 times
Reputation: 8310
It will come to pass. Within the next few years it will be legal throughout the country. I'm sick to death of those that continuously complain about governments role in legislating "THEIR" personal freedoms yet, demand that the personal freedoms of others be supressed. Hipocrisy at it's finest.
[QUOTE]....It's none of my business...It does not directly affect me in any way and if it makes people happier and more secure in their lives I see little point in fighting it[/quote]

Exactly! Mind your own Damned business people.
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Florida (SW)
38,448 posts, read 18,210,836 times
Reputation: 46324
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangorme View Post
You missed this part.

Marriage being between a man and a woman is, and always has been, almost universal within all cultures all over the world. Sometimes a man can marry women or men can marry a women, but same sex marriage (other for current pc reasons), is virtually unheard of. I can remember an anthropology class where there was a tribe somewhere that allowed a woman to marry a woman. I've never heard of any tribe allowing the marriage of men. You can point out all the trivial exceptions you want, they are still trivial exceptions.

The constitution does not guarantee gays same sex marriage. Only judicial activism has allowed that subversion of the the constitution.

You really have to research the PURPOSE of marriage. It isn't to obtain government benefits or some other status. It isn't a political statement, it's a got a purpose.
I am really not interested in the Taliban's definition of marriage or marriage under Sharia law...or in Pongo Pongo, Nairobi, Bejing or Salt Lake City.... or even of ancient Hebrew nomads wandering thru the Sinai desert.....I live in Maine in the 21 Century in the United States of America.....I have a constitutional right to married the person I choose....not who you or even the majority would choose for me. (What a farce it would be to condone me enterning into a straight marriage....to your sister? .... but denying me the right to marry the man I love. That is currently the state of affairs in Maine. )

I believe that the purpose of marriage is to stabilize society by providing secure families: for children to grow up in, for people to grow old in.....to promote the values of love and commitment.....to watch over property rights and inheritance. My community has suffered from being denied these supports .... it is time to recognize Marriage doesnt belong to any one religion or group or historical trend....it is a societal sanction....supported by the constitution and is of benefit to the whole society as well as to individuals. Love is never a bad thing.

Last edited by elston; 06-27-2011 at 05:48 PM..
 
Old 06-27-2011, 05:42 PM
 
1,403 posts, read 3,055,616 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangorme View Post
The defining of marriage as it is, is not discrimination. Marriage has a purpose. It isn't discrimination because I can't drive at 14. Drivers licenses have a purpose. The degradation of marriage to what is is now has cost our society dearly. Look at the cost of illegitimacy in this society. The destruction of marriage, making it a meaningful legal institution would be devastating.

So you must also be aginst divorce of heterosexual couples right? If same-sex marriage destroyed 'the purpose' of marriage (whatever that might be), then it follows that divorce must also...

I'm sure you have friends who are divorced...do you tell them that that they are destroying "the purpose" of marriage ?
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