U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maine
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-23-2011, 05:46 PM
 
17,159 posts, read 22,167,733 times
Reputation: 31223

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHB View Post
You know, I've worked both union and non union. You have lazy people everywhere, sometimes it's harder for the union shop to fire someone, but it's not the union that makes people lazy workers.

Like so many other things in this world, what starts off good (protection from abusive bosses, being treated fairly, safety) makes the swing to far in the other direction (harder to fire poor workers, wages that put people out of work, getting involved with politics)

I think it would be good if unions went back to local control, not this big business that they became, not with all the employees who only work for the union, and don't do the job of the workers they are trying to represent.
good points,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-23-2011, 05:54 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,262,215 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RHB View Post
Walmart is union???? I thought Walmart didn't allow unions.

It seems to me I recall some sort of brouhaha about the UFCW becoming involved in operations when Wal-Mart expanded to include groceries.

Maybe it's my faulty recollection, but it seems to me that it was quietly squashed, and then just seemed to fade away.

Wal-Mart does what it wants - it's now grown big enough. Yes, we can say they were "business savvy" and that "they were on the spot" to provide what the masses "demanded" but the bottom line is that they now pretty much rule retail. The powers that be can do whatever they like now (IMHO) because it has the collective *gonads* of retail in a vice.

After all, we should be 'grateful' for any job we have - regardless if it pays a wage in which one can afford a $600 a month apartment right? What's minimum wage now? $7.75??



I have a friend who went to work for Hannafords right out of high school (she's in her 40s now) she crests $19, but there is no way that any grocery store in Maine pays that much to a cashier - even with that amount of experience. She had to move up the ladder from being a cashier.

Last edited by cebdark; 08-23-2011 at 05:56 PM.. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2011, 06:44 PM
 
17,159 posts, read 22,167,733 times
Reputation: 31223
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
It seems to me I recall some sort of brouhaha about the UFCW becoming involved in operations when Wal-Mart expanded to include groceries.

Maybe it's my faulty recollection, but it seems to me that it was quietly squashed, and then just seemed to fade away.

Wal-Mart does what it wants - it's now grown big enough. Yes, we can say they were "business savvy" and that "they were on the spot" to provide what the masses "demanded" but the bottom line is that they now pretty much rule retail. The powers that be can do whatever they like now (IMHO) because it has the collective *gonads* of retail in a vice.

After all, we should be 'grateful' for any job we have - regardless if it pays a wage in which one can afford a $600 a month apartment right? What's minimum wage now? $7.75??



I have a friend who went to work for Hannafords right out of high school (she's in her 40s now) she crests $19, but there is no way that any grocery store in Maine pays that much to a cashier - even with that amount of experience. She had to move up the ladder from being a cashier.

A&P was union, i think first national was, they use to be throughout the state of maine-
They were competing against non union stores (many supplied by hannaford)
If the union model worked, then A&P's and first nationals would still be around


as mainewriter said, if a store is paying a cashier 19.00 an hour, then the store has to charge very high prices to cover a high payroll- which in turn, they arent competitive, eventually losing sales, and going out of business
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2011, 01:14 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,262,215 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
A&P was union, i think first national was, they use to be throughout the state of maine-
They were competing against non union stores (many supplied by hannaford)
If the union model worked, then A&P's and first nationals would still be around


as mainewriter said, if a store is paying a cashier 19.00 an hour, then the store has to charge very high prices to cover a high payroll- which in turn, they arent competitive, eventually losing sales, and going out of business
I see your point, but I'm not entirely sure that the union can take all of the blame for the demise of A&P. Sorry if I veer off-topic for a moment.

A&P History : Groceteria.com | Supermarket History

[LEFT]"The Meltdown:[/LEFT]
Through the 1950s, A&P continued to be America’s dominant grocery retailer (and at one point, its largest retailer of any sort), but some disturbing trends were starting to emerge. The company’s conservative policies were not in tune with the retail boom of the 1950s, and A&P’s largely urban (and aging) store base was concentrated in urban areas rather than the growing suburbs. This would be a major issue for the company in the ensuing years.
In addition, both John and George Hartford died in the 1950s, more or less ending the company’s connection to its founding family, and allowing it to go public. The Harford heirs were more concerned with large dividends than with the grocery business, and the resulting lack of investment initiated a period of stagnation from which A&P never fully recovered."

$19 is a ridiculous amount to pay any cashier really (IMO); however, we cannot continue to disregard the fact that a lot of former "pick up an extra shelf stacking job for a little fun money" jobs are now becoming more "I've got to do something to pay the bills" jobs up here for an entirely new kind of demographic, and that a lot of those jobs don't offer benefits, or pay low enough wages to qualify for mainecare coverage. I've been watching this trend increase exponentially for the last 10 years.

Like RHB put it so well, there are lazy people everywhere - they are the ones who should be canned instead of coddled. In that respect, I'm not particularly fond of unions who defend the dead wood. Unions are only as good (or bad) as the people in them - much like society as a whole (IMO).

Still, back to the OP, I think you will find that cashiers up here typically don't make much more than $10 (depending on experience and length of employment) up here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2011, 06:22 PM
 
17,159 posts, read 22,167,733 times
Reputation: 31223
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
I see your point, but I'm not entirely sure that the union can take all of the blame for the demise of A&P. Sorry if I veer off-topic for a moment.

A&P History : Groceteria.com | Supermarket History

[LEFT]"The Meltdown:[/LEFT]
Through the 1950s, A&P continued to be America’s dominant grocery retailer (and at one point, its largest retailer of any sort), but some disturbing trends were starting to emerge. The company’s conservative policies were not in tune with the retail boom of the 1950s, and A&P’s largely urban (and aging) store base was concentrated in urban areas rather than the growing suburbs. This would be a major issue for the company in the ensuing years.
In addition, both John and George Hartford died in the 1950s, more or less ending the company’s connection to its founding family, and allowing it to go public. The Harford heirs were more concerned with large dividends than with the grocery business, and the resulting lack of investment initiated a period of stagnation from which A&P never fully recovered."

$19 is a ridiculous amount to pay any cashier really (IMO); however, we cannot continue to disregard the fact that a lot of former "pick up an extra shelf stacking job for a little fun money" jobs are now becoming more "I've got to do something to pay the bills" jobs up here for an entirely new kind of demographic, and that a lot of those jobs don't offer benefits, or pay low enough wages to qualify for mainecare coverage. I've been watching this trend increase exponentially for the last 10 years.

Like RHB put it so well, there are lazy people everywhere - they are the ones who should be canned instead of coddled. In that respect, I'm not particularly fond of unions who defend the dead wood. Unions are only as good (or bad) as the people in them - much like society as a whole (IMO).

Still, back to the OP, I think you will find that cashiers up here typically don't make much more than $10 (depending on experience and length of employment) up here.

good points,
most retail businesses largest expense is payroll- however health benefits have gone thru the roof and energy costs have tripled in the past 15 yrs(grocery store with freezers and refrigerated cases draws large amount of energy) along with lights, compressors, etc
and of course taxes, permits, advertising, always increase

over 200 convenience stores have closed in the past 5 yrs in maine, due to more expenses, the cost of gas (replacement) and competition- if an irving low balls the price of gas (they also deliver it) it crunches the independent store nearby that may be paying more per gallon than irving is selling it for
stores (owners) that dont adapt to survive, will go out of business


A&P as you stated didnt reinvest and renovate with the times, they seem to have one footprint for a store and stuck to it- you can still see the old a&p buildings around maine- square brick buildings with a funky cupola on top
A cottle's shopnsave opened a store behind the a&p in gardiner and put the a&p out of business


hannaford changed with the times- changed so much, they are now owned by a belgium company called delhaize, same company that owns food lion
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
1,472 posts, read 2,610,521 times
Reputation: 1276
Maybe someone could cite one successful unionized industry that isn't government or bailed out by the government????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA/Dover-Foxcroft, ME
1,808 posts, read 2,891,840 times
Reputation: 2826
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangorme View Post
Maybe someone could cite one successful unionized industry that isn't government or bailed out by the government????
Teachers, Police Officers and Firefighters Unions? How about Transportation, Utilities, Telecomunication and Construction Workers Unions? Successful is probably a relative term too.

Here are some interesting facts from 2010 of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Union Members Summary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
1,472 posts, read 2,610,521 times
Reputation: 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore007 View Post
Teachers, Police Officers and Firefighters Unions? How about Transportation, Utilities, Telecomunication and Construction Workers Unions? Successful is probably a relative term too.

Here are some interesting facts from 2010 of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Union Members Summary
Teachers,police and firefighters: all government. No way to measure their "productivity."
teamsters.... Jimmy Hoffa?????? Find him first, then we'll talk about it.
telecommunications.... like Verizon? Didn't two union goons shoot someone when he caught them slashing his tires and spray-painting "scab" on his car?????

Only one I can think of is the UPS union. That hasn't gone bankrupt yet and doesn't seem overly corrupt. There could be others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Maine
7,728 posts, read 10,811,809 times
Reputation: 8310
I was a teamster. I'm glad I was as I have a pension that I'll be able to draw in the future. It gave me the chance to advance to a position I would not have been able to obtain without the "equalizing rules" of the union. If you don't like unions, don't join one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2011, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
1,472 posts, read 2,610,521 times
Reputation: 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by msina View Post
I was a teamster. I'm glad I was as I have a pension that I'll be able to draw in the future. It gave me the chance to advance to a position I would not have been able to obtain without the "equalizing rules" of the union. If you don't like unions, don't join one.
That option is only available in "right-to-work" states. I'm afraid you may have sold your soul to the devil to get that pension. The teamsters union has a long history of questionable activities and possible mob ties.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against collective bargaining. The problem arises when the union gets big enough to control whole industries, or even worse is a government union (which has no bottom line).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maine
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top