whats the actual locate vs. relocate number? (schools, tax rates)
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... Makes sense people would be moving out of the state in higher numbers, and people moving in or looking to stay in maine would probably stick to Augusta, Bangor, Lewiston, Portland and the surrounding areas.
I think in general the forbes data shows many people moving into urban/metro areas. Many of the in state moves all over the country are to major metro areas... We as americans are reaching a point where the small town isn't able to survive
Few jobs = fewer people = less business = unsustainable local economy= Migration = rural decay.
Sleepy suburbs are still able to survive to some extent, but as the cost of energy rises driving long distances into the more urban areas for goods and services will become less and less cost effective in the long run.
As to why they'd leave Maine, Jobs.. they have an education but no opportunities to apply their skills... Brain Drain
People moving into Maine unless they're specifically looking for rural living, will in my opinion stick to more major "cities" and metro areas such as the ones I've outlined above.
Kids growing up in rural areas are fleeing to those areas for more opportunities. When I lived in the Bangor area for instance I slowly witnessed my peers taking off towards Portland & Boston, while at the same time seeing an influx of people from The county and more rural down-east areas... Many of my Umaine peers moved to Portland/Boston or out of state very quickly.
Now i'm here in the mid-west and I see the same thing.. People fleeing rural areas to come into the city, and people from the city moving to even larger cities.
Just seems to be the way things are headed on a national scale, the forbes data matches this observation.
Few jobs = fewer people = less business = unsustainable local economy= Migration = rural decay.
Urban decay / rural decay.
Hamburger / cheeseburger.
... People moving into Maine unless they're specifically looking for rural living, will in my opinion stick to more major "cities" and metro areas such as the ones I've outlined above.
People wanting urban will move urban; people wanting rural will move rural.
... Kids growing up in rural areas are fleeing to those areas for more opportunities. When I lived in the Bangor area for instance I slowly witnessed my peers taking off towards Portland & Boston, while at the same time seeing an influx of people from The county and more rural down-east areas... Many of my Umaine peers moved to Portland/Boston or out of state very quickly.
Such is the story of life.
This is nothing new.
The world is not flat, it does not drop-off at the city limit sign. Young people often want to explore what else is out there.
Had you grown up in NYC you would have seen the same thing.
I find your responses in particular to be confusing. It's as if you're always looking to start an argument as opposed to adding anything of value to a conversation.
If you have a different opinion you have the floor, you can express your opinion without trying to bait and then feebly attempting to poke holes in another's opinion.
In response to you though, I do believe there are more motivating factors in a move than a young person's desire to "explore what's out there." One doesn't have to relocate to "explore."
Urban decay was also a side-effect of the rise of the suburb lifestyle that got into full swing after WWII. Energy and fossil fuels were much more plentiful and cheaper in those days. What we're seeing now in the 21st century is a reversal. As energy costs keep rising, you're seeing a widespread migration back to the urban areas and away from the suburbs. Many cities are beginning to boom again and be transformed back into the epicenters they were in the past.
Of course this is a slow transition as a whole and while sleepy suburbs along the borders of larger cities/metro areas are still very populated and are gaining population, you'll find on a national level that most places 2-3 hours away from a major metro area are collapsing (literally) and losing much of their population.
My supposition is that in the next 30-40 years we'll continue to see even more migration away from the rural areas and a more steady buildup of cities and metro areas....
How this relates to Maine specifically in my opinion is that over time we will likely see (what we've all seen to a small degree in our own lifetimes) areas such as Portland, Bangor, Augusta, and Lewiston will continue to grow and see an over-all increase in their population while areas further away will continue to decline in economic viability and population numbers.
These migration patterns are new in that for the last 60 years we as a country were spreading further and further away from cities and now that is changing and reversing...
for the record I don't see a problem with it, those who prefer to live in rural area's will have even more land and fewer people surrounding them, and those who prefer urban environments will have a much more lush and vibrant cityscape to live out their lives in....
It's win-win really and nothing that I think is worth arguing about or belittling each other's opinions over.
I think in general the forbes data shows many people moving into urban/metro areas. Many of the in state moves all over the country are to major metro areas, and many of the metro moves seem to be bigger metro areas in different states. We as americans are reaching a point where the small town isn't able to survive... I drive through old back roads in the mid-west with my wife and just see decay everywhere...
Maine only has one city, and two or three good size towns... Makes sense people would be moving out of the state in higher numbers, and people moving in or looking to stay in maine would probably stick to Augusta, Bangor, Lewiston, Portland and the surrounding areas.
I am required to collect basic demographic data for my job.
While I can't provide glossy graphs and statistical 'data' I can say without much doubt that people have moved from more rural areas to Bangor for jobs and services that are no longer provided in their hometowns - mainly because jobs have migrated out. I have been watching this trend for the better part of 7 years now in my current position. I saw it spike the first time the gas prices went up. That's no real surprise. At the time, I was working for extra cash (to put my kid through Sylvan) at a local retailer. I don't live far from it. When I found myself going deeper in the hole for gas (with no chance of increasing hours) I got done.
I've had many conversations with people about why they moved closer. It's really not surprising why. People do what they have to if they don't have some sort of steady income.
I also work with a number of people who commute in excess of 125 miles to their jobs. Quite a few of them commute either with a spouse who works in the area, or share the costs of commuting with another employee.
I think the thing that may have saved some people from leaving would be the ability to work from home on the internet.
Last edited by reloop; 03-07-2012 at 06:43 AM..
At the risk of being labeled a "tinfoiler", it's possible that this trend may be a result of the elites plan of rural cleansing. I'm not saying they have direct control of the details, but over time I've noticed that so many of Fed. and State governmental policies hurt small business and especially small town economies.
In Maine, there are 39 towns over 6 thousand people, 255 towns between 1-6 thousand people and 143 towns between 0-1 thousand people. Plus some more towns that can't be counted yet because you can't get there from here.
I have always known that when I retire back in Maine, probably in the Dover area, that nothing has changed too much in the past and probably won't in the future. Our family cemetary is right out back of our kitchen window in the old 1850's farmhouse and I know that there won't be too many folks down there that will be relocating any time too soon.
As far as working urban and living rural, that is what many of my family does in Maine because it has always been that way. In order to get that quality of life that they want, they are willing to sacrifice and travel for work. They will adapt to higher commuting costs just like they do to everything else. It is not uncommon for Mainers to have to adapt to conditions of the day.
On the other hand, I have Mainer relatives that work, live and play all on their own properties and don't venture out too far from their communities. They stay close to their homesteads and parents and support systems. Venturing too far is just uncommon.
There's been quite an explosion in the smaller towns surrounding Bangor, but this doesn't surprise me (again) as people move toward where jobs and services are.
"The estimated 14 percent overall suburban growth rate around Bangor does not include the city of Old Town, which saw its population shrink by more than 3 percent over the past 10 years, most likely due to Georgia-Pacific’s closure of the town’s pulp and paper mill in 2006. Towns that were included by the Bangor Daily News in the city’s suburban growth estimates are Alton, Bradford, Bradley, Carmel, Clifton, Corinth, Dixmont, Eddington, Etna, Exeter, Glenburn, Hampden, Hermon, Holden, Hudson, Kenduskeag, Levant, Milford, Newburgh, Orono, Orrington, Stetson and Veazie."
While people have always commuted, I think gas price increases have never been as high as quickly as recently. That would explain it more for me. If I have to commute 100 miles round trip 5 days a week, it would behoove me to move closer if it was at all possible. I knew a few people who left the state when Georgia-Pacific closed (and when it was James River before it was Georgia- Pacific). Of course nothings scientific, again, just a basic observation.
"The overall double-digit percentage growth rate for Penobscot County towns in suburban Bangor outpaces the population growth rates for suburban towns in other counties, according to Joel Johnson, an economist with Maine State Planning Office. “The Bangor suburbs grew quickly over the past decade,” Johnson said Friday"
"Johnson cautioned that, with Maine being a largely rural state, trying to define what a suburban town is can be tricky. Many Mainers commute long distances for work, he said, so whether certain municipalities can be considered part of a larger city’s suburban area can be largely subjective."
"Johnson said he independently looked at the population growth of 12 towns immediately surrounding Bangor, and came up with an overall suburban growth rate of around 12 percent. He estimated that those towns, with an overall increase of about 5,000 total residents, had half the overall population increase of eight suburban towns surrounding Portland. Still, the suburban growth rates around Portland and Lewiston were each a few percentage points lower than Bangor’s suburban growth rate, while those around Augusta and Waterville were “much lower,” he said."
I actually think the "rural drain" might not be as strong as it was in the past, at least as time goes by. People are looking to get out of large, crowded, crime-filled, violent, big cities/areas and get away to someplace that is either less of all those things or none of those things. It's tough for people trying to raise families in large cities today, and the mobility and crime overflow from large cities means even the suburbs are not as 'safe & quiet' as they used to be in many places. More heavily rural states are going to see an influx as more heavily populated parts of the country get worse and worse.
Yes, people will leave small town America and go to the big cities for education and job opportunities. But once it is time to raise a family many of them will try to find a way to go back to clean air, safe streets, and peace & quiet.
It would be nice if the Forbes map had an option that showed all the immigration/migration on one map, such as a light/deep color to show the net in/out levels of people moving.
The way it is at the moment (which is great BTW for single use purposes) you can only pick one place to get info from, which doesn't help to see what the trend(s) are.
I'd like to be able to see the trends in each state, on a single map of the USA.
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