universal healthcare in Vermont (health insurance, how much, lawyers)

[MRVphotog]

Vermont is about to launch it's own universal healthcare system. Awesome article about it. My wife has been in the Dirago(Maine) plan for about 3 years. I'm interested in the Vermont plan
As goes Maine …: Times Argus Online

[7th generation]

The need for affordable health care SHOULD be one of the top priorities in the next presidential election and hopefully an answer to this is near. Health costs are my biggest concern. Good post MRV.

[Submariner]

I have no idea what the 'answer' is.

I am retired military so I have fairly low co-payments and annual enrollment fees.

For the vast majority of citizens, who do not have such a HMO plan, I have no idea what the answer is.

I do hope that we can avoid health systems as I have seen in Europe and in the military.

[raygabs]

Why Forest, what's the downside to those systems? My stepmom's family is from Italy and I always thought they were generally happy with it.

[Submariner]

Families are expected to tend to the patient, change dressings and monitor condition. I have been in Ospitales in Italia where the doctors smoke and the floors are littered with buts and fouled dressings; once a day the janitor comes through to sweep and mop. But otherwise we were amazed at the general level of filth in the Ospitales when we lived in Napoli.

British hospitals are not so filthy, but their lines waiting to be seen are really long, weeks.

I love living stateside as a civilian going into civilian hospitals. I spent many years in the military, and now every time that I go in to be seen, I see a doctor. A person who has been to college and has a medical degree. No more corpsmen treating me, no more 19yr old corpsman delivering our babies and treating my family.

I have been stitched up so many times by an 18year old, that the last time I was in a military hospital with one of our children, I ended up doing the stitching, as the 19year old was not sure of how to do the task. I have had bones set by corpsmen, and until
four years after my retirement, most of my scripts were written by corpsmen.

Stateside civilians have a much higher standard of care. Much cleaner facilities, much better trained physicians.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by raygabs

Why Forest, what's the downside to those systems?

I'm with Forest, I think civilian hospitals are to be preferred to military. And as to the VA hospitals, I went to one ONCE, never again. If that is the way the government is going to run healthcare, I'll go to a veterinary clinic.

[dmyankee]

What if we separate the terms? There is a health care affordability problem, not an access problem. That's like calling the migration crisis an immigration problem.

We have the best health care in the world. More doctors and other professionals than anyone else and plenty of access points.

Maine outlawed community rating in the early 90's. Prior to that, It was nothing back then with the choices to get a decent family plan for $350-750/month. The one and only carrier in Maine is Anthem. A plan that costs $1000/mo. here can easily be had in N. H. for half of that. For the younger crowed, you can set up a tax deductible Health Savings Account, and earn interest rather than paying all the bucks for a super policy. The major problem is you need to take out a health insurance in order to have it. In many states you can take out a $200 policy and contribute to the HSA. In Maine you have to spent what ever astronomical amount Anthem wants for a policy, so it is not worth the extra added expense.

Thats where I start loosing track of the big picture. The Feds should not be running the show. The state is already running into problems with Dirigo. I believe government regulation should be relaxed. If the V. A. is any indicator...NO WAY would I want that!

MA. right now is experimenting with required health insurance by all citizens. I do not know the details. Doesn't sound right. Just my 2 cents.

[Submariner]

When you have a lot of doctors, and a lot of nurses, and huge hospitals with lots of staffing of lawyers / receptionists / security guards / janitors, and then all the fancy new equipment each with a specialized operator and requiring a specialized service tech to calibrate it every month. That is a huge infrastructure.

A lot of people who all make good salaries.

Plus the drug companies who each show good profits each quarter.

I fully understand that it is expensive.

I do not see the problem as one of access either. We have hospitals everywhere filled with all of these people and their equipment. Accessing one is easy.

But to expect that $50/month will pay for full coverage for me and my family; anytime that I need to go in and have five of those people to focus their work hours and equipment on me. Is going to cost a lot. And the math simply does not work out.

I can understand where spending a week in a cardiac ward, along with a couple heart surgeries, understandably is going to cost over $100k.

To provide that kind of full coverage to every citizen in the nation, will cost a huge amount. I fear that the total bill would easily exceed the total that we all earn.

If it does end up costing 'the system' more money to operate than how much our nation earns, then this is one dog that has simply over-grown it's doghouse.

I think that for many Americans; 100% of your Gross annual earnings, would not be enough to cover one major medical treatment per year. And I think that two major medical issues in a family would cost more then most Americans earn in a year. When the expense of medical treatment exceeds your gross income, then something has gone awry.

???

[mainebrokerman]

we can see how efficient the government is with welfare ..only 17 cents out of every dollar ,,actually hits the recipient,,now we want to give all of healthcare over to the government????
i agree the system,,,,needs an overhaul,,,,,
but keep in mind something,,nothing is FREE if im not paying for it,,someone else is,,

the reason why an aspirin casts 12$ is because the ones with the ability to pay,,has to make up for the ones that cant or dont,,

i believe there is so much fraud at the federal level it will make ya puke,,,(disabilities, etc) takes away from the folks who really need it,,,,and the folks on welfare should be drug-tested,,if drugs are in thier system,,they are cut -off,,(im sorry im heartless when it comes to drugs,,ive seen too many friends waste themselves away,, even ,with all the help,,in front of them)

also,,,,the frivolous lawsuits,,,drive up insurance rates on dr.'s we should cap them,,,,
3 large woman recently tried sueing mcdonalds,,for making them fat,,they ate there everyday ,,mcdonalds didnt force them there,,but suppose those three large woman,,,,,got the o.j. jury,,,,and they awarded the three "victims" millions of dollars,,
that opens the door to sueing for anything,,,

and there will come a day,,,,,where the health care system,,,,the rates, will be charged according to lifestyle,,if someone smokes,,they pay more (believe this already exists) if someone is 50 lbs overweight,,they pay more,,
if they place themselves in a high risk situation by wrong, or bad behavior,,why do the rest of us have to pay for that??

[dmyankee]

Tort reform is one of the major issues, but certainly not the only one. More people than not, want to sue the heck out of anyone for anything. It's like the lottery mentality to the lawyers. There needs to be a cap on expenses for malpractice that are reasonable. yet compensatory to the grievance or misdiagnoses.

I know a few doctors who went in with a group practice, giving up their own private one due to costs of insurance and the flood of new, expensive technology and meds everyone seems to want.

The public demands a $700 MRI for every little condition that can be diagnosed without one. The doctor in turn refers the patients to costly medical tests to cover his bases in case of a lawsuit. The pharmaceutical companies spend at least as much on advertising as they do in R & D. So everyone runs to the doc for the latest fix. A few years later, the layers figure out enough people have side effect from the meds and commence with a class action lawsuit. The lawyers need to be reined in.

Prilosec and Nexium come to mind. When the patent for the former was ready to expire, they took its isomer brother, Nexium, and unleashed it with an advertising blitz. Everyone who was taking the Prilosec, one of the best selling drugs in history, ran right out and begged for the latter. Pharmaceuticals should not be advertised.

Technology is great. The insurers work on cost benefit however. Step onto a hospital ward or ask any nurse. The floors are loaded with the patients we used to monitor in the ICU. 15 years ago, if you were respirator dependent, you would not be on the main floor. Stays have been shortened, most surgery is outpatient but the ED's are with people that they do not need emergency care for. Many lack a primary care provider or some other avenue of care.

As a side note, I see a push to limit drug reps from pushing meds on doctors. In one sense, I think that is wrong. Here in Maine, thousands of people annually have access to free meds that are handed to them by their providers that they would never have afforded or been covered for.

Still not sure what the answers are. I'm far from an expert but maybe regional health care pools can be formed. Perhaps if you got at least a million or so people in a plan, it would all work out. There would be enough to hand out and some left over to make the company money. One thing is for sure. The companies and stockholders can not be greedy. The people themselves have to dive in a little with preventive care and letting a minor illness and injury run its course rather than seeking care.