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Old 09-03-2012, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Maine
5,977 posts, read 11,172,930 times
Reputation: 5265

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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
There is no logical follow-through with the idea that if you eat meat, then necessarily you can't have any aversion to hunting. It's not a solid argument.
As I said, it doesn't make sense to me. It wasn't an argument.

I watched two of the biggest raccoons I've ever seen this evening. They came out 20 minutes before I left my tree stand this evening. I had one round ready to go and three in the clip. My rifle is semi automatic. If I shot animals for sport I'd have killed them. It would have been easy and over with in seconds. They're alive and well. I scared them before I climbed down. No need to be on the ground with two huge raccoons 25' away.

Quote:
You should just admit that you like shooting animals for sport and leave it at that.
If it were true I'd say so. That's an extremely offensive, grossly inaccurate accusation.

Quote:
Because, if you use the 'meat eater' argument, I will say, I really love lobster, but I don't feel I need the credential of laying the traps myself. You see where this is going? If I like hamburger, do I need to go and shoot a cow? Probably not, right?
It's not an argument. It's not even a justification. If I didn't eat meat I wouldn't hunt.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Maine
5,977 posts, read 11,172,930 times
Reputation: 5265
MBM, great comments. Hunting is a complex process. We started working on food plots in July. They aren't kept up for only the deer. The plants are chosen for nutrition, protein, grazing heights (deer like varied heights, turkeys don't care), etc. for the wildlife in general. We put a lot of thought about conservation into what we do. Your comment about non-hunters not understanding is spot on. It's not something that can be fully understood without personal experience. I have some major steps to make before I understand the entire experience.

spose and RMoore, thank you!

Hunting isn't just something to do. It's part of a way of life.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:42 PM
 
Location: on a dirt road in Waitsfield,Vermont
2,185 posts, read 5,870,548 times
Reputation: 1113
I too do not hunt myself, many years ago when I lived out in Wyoming I went out with friends to hunt for elk. I got a license but was not sure I would be able to pull the trigger. With the rifle borrowed from one of my friends I had an animal in my sights but could not pull the trigger.

Even tho I do not hunt myself I grew up in a hunting culture in the Daks, I support righteous hunting, not too big on the big game hunts for wealthy out of state clients I saw while living in Jackson, but hunting for meat is an important game management tool which helps to keep a healthy game population whether in Wyoming, Vermont or Maine.

I love elk meat so I would help friends hump a quartered elk or moose, package the processed meat, whatever in trade for some meat for my freezer. Most of the people I run across who are against hunting do not understand hunting, think that because they don't like to hunt, no one should.

From one who doesn't hunt, I support hunting, I defend hunting, I admire the tradition, the positives in regards to the biology of game management and of course the good eats. Compared to the large commercial turkey farms, and egg farms with hundreds of thousands of egg laying hens in one building, hunting for meat in the traditional ways is way more humane.

Having said all that, I do not own a gun, have never felt the need to own one for protection. It's my personal choice. People that own guns, it's their personal choice. I do not have a problem with that although I feel alot safer living in places like Wyoming, Vermont or Maine than I would if I lived in a large urban/suburban place like NYC or LA.

Last edited by MRVphotog; 09-03-2012 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:44 AM
 
1,253 posts, read 1,789,600 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
As I said, it doesn't make sense to me. It wasn't an argument.

I watched two of the biggest raccoons I've ever seen this evening. They came out 20 minutes before I left my tree stand this evening. I had one round ready to go and three in the clip. My rifle is semi automatic. If I shot animals for sport I'd have killed them. It would have been easy and over with in seconds. They're alive and well. I scared them before I climbed down. No need to be on the ground with two huge raccoons 25' away.

If it were true I'd say so. That's an extremely offensive, grossly inaccurate accusation.

[b]

It's not an argument. It's not even a justification. If I didn't eat meat I wouldn't hunt.

Again, my intent was never to fly the flag of the vegan pacifist, just to say that while I don't and probably will never understand the culture of shooting living things I thought Maine Writer's article was good and I enjoyed reading it.

But the question could well be asked -- why people who collect guns for the ostensible purpose of shooting animals (or people, let's be honest -- guns in the home are statistically more likely to be used against a loved one) be so defensive about their "hobby"? It seems like you can never say "I would never do this" without the pro-gun people piling on with their blood-lust, paranoia, and justifications galore. People who have no interest in blood sports can't say they have no interest in it without getting bullied. I am not that interested in your reasons for doing it.

And, for instance, I probably wouldn't say this, as someone posted on another thread:

"Not eating animals, being a vegan, is not what I was talking about, although I deeply admire people who do not eat or use animal products.

What I was talking about was the sport of hunting. People can give me the long boring tired line all they want about how they kill to provide food but it is of course, nowadays, a big fat lie.

A lie.

They hunt because they feel they can justify the PLEASURE of going out and tracking down and killing a wild animal.

They love to kill animals and chase them down.

It is a low life "sport". It is mean and nasty. It is not necessary. And it often involves horrific mental and physical suffering.


I won't mince words. These animals deserve better.

OK, off the soapbox - back to the topic at hand..Or I will have to start a new thread and don't want to."


There are definitely people who feel stronger about this than I do.

Oh -- and side note to the folks who PMed me saying they agree with me but don't want to post that they agree -- what are you afraid of? Actually?
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Maine
5,977 posts, read 11,172,930 times
Reputation: 5265
I have a better understanding this morning of a meat eater's objection to hunting. He took the time to thoughtfully, kindly, politely explain it to me. Simply said, he has a division between "food" and "non-food" animals. For him, wild animals are not food. If the animal was raised specifically for food, he considers it food. I understand. I lived in Asia. Monkeys and dogs were sold in the open air market. They're not on my list of edible animals but if someone else wants to eat them, that's okay with me. I've raised "food" and "non-food" poultry. I'd have to be very hungry and have no alternative before I would eat my 10 year old pet turkey but the turkeys we raise to eat are delicious. I get it.

What we eat isn't as important to me as how the animal is treated.

From birdinmigration:
Quote:
Again, my intent was never to fly the flag of the vegan pacifist, just to say that while I don't and probably will never understand the culture of shooting living things I thought Maine Writer's article was good and I enjoyed reading it.
I do appreciate that you liked the article and enjoyed reading it. You're going to insist this is a blood sport for me in spite of what I tell you. The message you quoted in blue is angry and irrational. You might not have said it but you got your point across. I'm not going to be baited into justifying my beliefs. My conversation with you is over. We'll stay comfortably on our own sides.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: NJ
16,069 posts, read 11,088,178 times
Reputation: 10243
Default good article MW

Great article and a good media forum to reach a large audience. Rare a paper would publish such a story as not wanting to offend advertisers.

More articles like that need to appear as MW did in a non confrontational way and simply state a philosophy.

Consuming what you hunt is a communion of sorts where you assimilate the animals which become part of your body. what a better way to show respect.

Just finished a venison steak and about to make chile verde with 3 lbs of venison burger.

Hunting is not a sport for many of us, it is a way of life.

I finally got a moose permit for zone 26 after 31 years of applying and will be out and about trying to convert a moose into a banquet of thanks for as many friends and acquaintences as possible.

the experience of hunting especially with a recurve or long bow is to share a famly linkage that goes far beyond Ellis Island and reaches to the earliest days thosands of years BC. The same emotions and feelings held by our earliest ancestors have travelled thru time to rest in the hearts of todays archers and gun hunters.

In our society putting out a contract to kill gets you a guilty verdict though you did not actually make the kill. so store bought meat does not exempt anyone morally or ethically from the act slaughtering an animal or the conditions under which it is kept and tranported.

Hunt or not, its all good.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:16 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine, FL
227 posts, read 357,016 times
Reputation: 293
I eat meat from supermarkets too...complete with *whatever else* might be added to it!
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:31 PM
Status: "if UNTHAW is a word ..i want to UN-AGE ," (set 4 days ago)
 
17,275 posts, read 22,339,385 times
Reputation: 31545
kracer



In our society putting out a contract to kill gets you a guilty verdict though you did not actually make the kill. so store bought meat does not exempt anyone morally or ethically from the act slaughtering an animal or the conditions under which it is kept and tranported.

Hunt or not, its all good.


great post!!


Interesting angle!! gave me a chuckle,,thanks...

in this light, I have more "blood on my hands" than just about anyone else....in maine...

I went from a Beef whisperer, to cow killer....

(I use to be a butcher/Meat dept manager at Hannaford for many years)
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Washington County, ME
1,549 posts, read 2,258,913 times
Reputation: 1863
Well - since it took this turn - after saying great article, and i'm now following you on Facebook -

I dont eat meat, but would rather see someone kill their own meat, than eat the factory-farmed tortured crap they sell people in this country nowadays. just sayin...

At least the animal someone hunted was living a decent life like they are supposed to live - free and ANIMAL-like.

I DO eat seafood.

I DO choose not to eat meat because i dont want a warm-blooded animal to have to die to feed me...(i've found tons of other food to eat!) and i have a few other reasons. I'm only on my third year of this, and i'm 53. So it's all still a learning and a spiritual process for me.

To each their own, but if you kill and eat your own meat - i respect that more.

Last edited by Jellybean50; 09-04-2012 at 04:51 PM.. Reason: missed a word
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Maine
5,977 posts, read 11,172,930 times
Reputation: 5265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Great article and a good media forum to reach a large audience. Rare a paper would publish such a story as not wanting to offend advertisers.
The Outdoors section editor gets slammed for some of the stories he writes.


Quote:
Hunting is not a sport for many of us, it is a way of life.
If it were a sport I'd have given up after the first season. I've spent at least 200 hours in the woods trying to find a deer I consider a shooter. If this were a sport I'd be losing big time.

Quote:
I finally got a moose permit for zone 26 after 31 years of applying and will be out and about trying to convert a moose into a banquet of thanks for as many friends and acquaintences as possible.
I'm still a little envious of that permit. I haven't been applying nearly as long though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spose View Post
I eat meat from supermarkets too...complete with *whatever else* might be added to it!
I do once in a while. If we go out to eat I'll probably have a steak or chicken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybean50 View Post
Well - since it took this turn - after saying great article, and i'm now following you on Facebook -
Thank you!

Quote:
At least the animal someone hunted was living a decent life like they are supposed to live - free and ANIMAL-like.
That matters to me.

Quote:
I DO choose not to eat meat because i dont want a warm-blooded animal to have to die to feed me...(i've found tons of other food to eat!)
We eat beans and quinoa quite often. DH can't have a lot of iron so we eat little beef. It's not worth it to use to buy a half or quarter of a steer anymore so I'm making substitutions.
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