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Old 12-21-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Pullman, WA
224 posts, read 164,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Go into any high-taxed city you will see sparks flying from the edge of the plow blades. Those edges must be replaced every year, as they grind away.

Are you opposed to the wear on the pavement?

I suspect there is far more pavement damage from plow blades than from studs.

In my city they raise the blade at least an inch off the pavement as a matter of policy, so i can't speak for what you're talking about.

Studs create ruts, which are dangerous. I doubt a snow plow blade is creating any ruts.
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,741 posts, read 47,547,485 times
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In my township the plows leave a nice layer of ice on the pavement. The only time pavement is exposed is after the sun has melted the ice away.

Go into any of the higher taxed towns, and you can watch the sparks fly from the plow blades as they scrape the pavement.

Studs do not make ruts.
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Pullman, WA
224 posts, read 164,291 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Studs do not make ruts.
Yes, they do.

http://www.pavementinteractive.org/a...e-information/

Problems with Studded Tires
Although studded tires increase traction on icy surfaces, in the early 1970s various studies throughout the U.S. and internationally began to identify significant problems with studded tires:

Studded tires may not offer any safety advantages in comparison to modern radial winter tires in non-icy road conditions. In fact, studs may decrease tire-road friction in these situations. For more information see:
Scheible, R. (October 2002). An Overview of Studded and Studless Tire Traction and Safety. WSDOT Research Report WA-RD 551.1. Washington State Transportation Center (TRAC), Washington State Department of Transportation. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traveler/wintertravel/Studded Tire Report Final Nov 2002.pdf

Studded tires have been shown to cause significant damage to both flexible and rigid pavements. Specifically, they:
- Create ruts which fill with ice and water creating spray and hydroplaning.
- May polish some aggregates, which reduces skid resistance and creates a more slippery driving surface.
- Remove pavement markings.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in deep in Maine
3,484 posts, read 2,543,560 times
Reputation: 4217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post

I suspect there is far more pavement damage from plow blades than from studs.
Wait....a couple of passes flat with bouncing of the snow plow blade versus thousands of cars each with 4 tires and studs on each scraping away, not just during snow storms but every day of the winter, taking out tiny chucks of road surface.

I suspect that you are seriously wrong. Think about it.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=151

http://www.pavementinteractive.org/a...e-information/
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,520 posts, read 14,313,796 times
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You will see ruts going across roads where snowmobile trails cross, especially the heavily used ITS trails. The thump is so big that it wakes up sleeping passengers.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,741 posts, read 47,547,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
You will see ruts going across roads where snowmobile trails cross, especially the heavily used ITS trails. The thump is so big that it wakes up sleeping passengers.
I am amazed that you went there. Okay explain to us the difference between studs use on a snowmobile track and those used on a vehicle tire.
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,496 posts, read 6,438,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am amazed that you went there. Okay explain to us the difference between studs use on a snowmobile track and those used on a vehicle tire.
I see where they are going with that, and I can see the sense in it. The studs chew up the ice and wear it away, which (in my mind) can have positive and negative effects. The positive effect, is that the condition is improved *sooner* for the studless drivers, as clear pavement is reached sooner. On the other hand, the studless drivers may find it more difficult to get out of the track created.

However, I would maintain that the mere passage of *any* tires, studless or studded, is going to create the rutted condition, and the slush and icing (temperature dependent). The argument, while having some measure of truth to it, is academic.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:48 PM
 
914 posts, read 1,847,229 times
Reputation: 1091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am amazed that you went there. Okay explain to us the difference between studs use on a snowmobile track and those used on a vehicle tire.
The road gets abuse when a sled trail crosses it from the carbide runners on the skis much more than the studs on the track. Also, the ruts I see on the road are mainly caused by constant overloaded trucks much more than studded car tires. Just saying.
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:06 PM
 
447 posts, read 420,897 times
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I have typically done fine with all seasons and without siping but I live in a city area and not often on hills etc. also fwd cars or awd/4wd help. I have at times had studded snow tires and they are nice to have I have heard good things about nokian tires a good finnish/russian tire the all season is similar in performance to winter tires and the winter tires are legendary apparently consumer reports likes them to
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Old 12-25-2016, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,520 posts, read 14,313,796 times
Reputation: 9008
"I am amazed that you went there. Okay explain to us the difference between studs use on a snowmobile track and those used on a vehicle tire."

Studs on vehicle tires protrude very slightly from tire treads. Studs on snowmobile tracks protrude an inch and sometimes two inches. Snowmobiles with long studs are supported entirely by studs when on pavement. When on packed snow, a snowmobile track supports the machine and the stud penetrates the soft snow or hard pack. On lakes with bare ice, the studs entirely support the snowmobile. That's the difference. Cars show up at tire dealers with flat tires and most car tire shops have a jar on the counter with snowmobile studs that they have removed from car tires.

In Maine, ATVs are not allowed on snowmobile trails unless they are on tracks. ATVs are very popular with ice fishermen. They use sheet metal screws in their tires for traction on ice. They are effective and stud makers now make studs for ATV tires.

In New Brunswick, the government recognizes that ATV riders bring a lot of money into the Province. ATVs are allowed on Snowmobile trails there.
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